Chemical "disfiguration" on case hardened receiver. What caused it?

[MIEagle]

I have a Browning 1885 BPCR. Awhile back, before I joined this website, I noticed a drip-like gray colored mark on the left side of my receiver. I only use bore cleaning solvents appropriate for black powder and have used Simple Green and automotive antifreeze for swabbing the bore between shots. One time I did use Shooter's Choice Lead Remover in the bore. Could that have caused the mark on my receiver? Thank you.

[oldred]

Perhaps if you could be a bit more specific as to what you have, two posts on this subject and it's still a mystery as to what kind of finish in on this receiver. "Case hardened" is not a surface finish and most case hardened surfaces are blued (Browning 1885s are normally blued) but I suppose it could be COLOR case hardened, is that what you mean?

With either finish it doesn't take a very strong acid to mar it clean down to bare metal but strong solvents normally used for guns are not a problem, either color case hardening or bluing (regardless if the blued metal was case or through hardened) can be damaged by anything that will remove rust because both types of finish are a form of oxidation just as is rust.

A perfect example of this is what happened to my beloved Colt New Frontier about 30 years ago at a family picnic. After the meal we were doing some shooting ( this was on private land) with different pistols, while trying out another fellows gun I layed (spell check says "Layed" is not even a word????) my Colt down on a paper napkin on the picnic table. There was a piece of a cooked green bean hull of all things stuck to that napkin, this small piece of cooked vegetable was stuck to my Colt when I picked it up and to my horror it had removed a small spot of blue on the cylinder and another small spot of the color case on the receiver frame and those two spots are reminder to this day to be more careful!

I could certainly be wrong about this so maybe someone else knows for sure but I thought the modern Winchester/Brownings were made of 4140 alloy thus through hardened and can't be color cased? I just asked Mr Google about this and neither a link search nor an image search could find an example of a Browning 1885 with a color cased receiver but I suppose that doesn't for sure mean they are not out there.

[montana_charlie]

I layed (spell check says "Layed" is not even a word????) ...

... laid ...

verb
1. simple past tense and past participle of lay.

[Bent Ramrod]

Back in the 1970's BB (Before Ballistol) I skimped on the cleaning of an Italian cap and ball revolver, just wiping it down with a cloth dampened with soapy water on the major components and cleaning the barrel and chambers. The next day I saw that an area on the recoil shield was now a dull gray instead of color casehardened. I'd missed a small area where the smoke had deposited and it had taken the finish right off. Perhaps in your case, a small amount of contaminated cleaning solvent hadn't been totally removed from the surface, or a missed spot just happened to look like a liquid drop.

I've also heard that an overdose of Ballistol can remove finish, although it takes more than the layer I leave on everything. But there was someone posting on line that left his Colt revolvers soaked in Ballistol in Baggies for storage and a month or so later found his 75% finish guns down to 25%, and so forth. Some of these cleaning solvents are advertised to remove "oxidation," and the case colors, and bluing for that matter, are oxidation on the surface of steel.

You might look up the MSD Sheet of Shooter's Choice. If there is some kind of oxidant removing chemical in there, it may have contributed.

[John Boy]

Ballistol composition ...
Ingredients (according to a specification from December 2002)

* pharmaceutical white oil: CAS RN 8042-47-5; Mineral oil
* Oleic acid: CAS RN 112-80-1
* C-5 alcohols: CAS RN 78-83-1; Isobutyl alcohol
* CAS RN 137-32-6; 2-Methylbutyl Alcohol
* CAS RN 100-51-6; BENZENEMETHANOL (9CI)
* different essential oils to perfume Ballistol

[oldred]

... laid ...

verb
1. simple past tense and past participle of lay.

Thank you! I knew I had something wrong and now that I see it I don't know how I did that since I know better, hadn't gotten my morning dose of caffeine yet! Actually after re-reading that post just now I found it to be full of goofy errors but "layed" vs "laid" should have been obvious, dang this gittin old is a drag!!!!!!!!

[MIEagle]

Perhaps I incorrectly identified the finish on my Browning 1885 High Wall BPCR. It is color case hardened with the "rainbow" effect similar to the Shiloh Sharps finish. If I can get a picture, I will post it. Thanks.

[oldred]

We are all familiar with color case receivers but a picture of your rifle would be most welcome! In fact in trying to determine if Browning had color cased some receivers I had a bit of a hard time finding any, not until I Googled "Browning BPCR" did I find an example and no really good shots even then. I find the newer style of the modern Highwalls to be quite pleasing and one of the very best looking rifles made today but every one I had seen until now had been blued.

I know how it feels to have a minor blemish on such a firearm after what happened to my Colt all those years ago but after a while it just sort of becomes part of the guns "character" and probably won't bother you to much at all. The only way to truly fix that would involve a major and expensive re-casing of the receiver and not only that but due to the fact it's 4140 steel as explained by Texasmac (who is somewhat of an authority on these guns) it requires an even more specialized heat treating process that very few places can even do. Normally 4140 is considered unsuitable for color casing but through this specialized process it can be done, Turnbull does this I think but their method is a guarded secret!

Now for the good news, some years ago a gunsmith I met at a show offered to touch up the blemish on my Colt and showed me an example of the work he had done. This involves a chemical solution that produces a "Faux" finish that closely mimics color case hardening and in fact has been used by several manufacturers to produce what appears to be color casing on new guns, even Ruger has done this. When done correctly it is all but indistinguishable from the real thing and while a complete fake color cased gun might not be very appealing just using the process to easily and inexpensively touch up a small spot might be very appealing indeed! I opted to just leave mine as it is since it had been there for years and had long since ceased to bother me but if you wanted to repair the finish on that fine rifle it can be done without resorting to the drastic means of returning it to the heat treat oven. Just be sure the 'smith knows and understands what he is doing since this is no job for Bubba, the chemicals required could possibly damage the existing finish if done improperly but that shouldn't be a problem as the job is fairly simple for someone who knows how to do it.

[MIEagle]

I hope these pics are good enough. I tried several focal lengths and angles on the lighting. Thank you for your help.

[oldred]

Ouch! That spot, while far from making the rifle "ugly", is kind of obvious and I can certainly understand your concern with it. I think that can be repaired by the method I mentioned earlier, however I don't know the name of the product or a good gunsmith to apply it but hopefully someone else here might. I was at a gun show some time back and this fella was selling this product, he claimed to be a long time gun smith and a short conversation with him left no doubt that he did indeed know what he was talking about, he had several pistol and rifle receivers he had done plus he was doing demos of the product. These things looked really good and actually looked like the real thing, he offered to touch up my Colt just to show me it could be done and how easy it would be and from what I saw there I am sure it would fix, or at least make it far less noticeable, the blemish in that picture.

Anyone here familiar with the product I am talking about?


:EDIT: Just spoke with a buddy of mine who is very knowledgeable about such things as color casing and bluing, he said to get a copy of the Brownells book "Gunsmith Kinks", this book has a good article about repairing damaged Color Casing. He said the usual method for doing this is Brownells Oxpho Blue and Isopropyl alcohol applied with a Q-tip, it's not as simple as just applying the Oxpho Blue but it's not supposed to be complicated either. I would imagine a bit of practice on a piece of scrap steel to get the confidence needed first and this is probably doable by most anyone but if uncomfortable about tackling such a job I'm sure there is someone with experience doing it. Not even sure if you're wanting to repair that spot but if you do then apparently it can be done without resorting to drastic measures, if you ask around I'm sure you will find no shortage of "nay sayers" that will tell you it can't be done and a trip back into the heat treat oven is the only way to fix it but I have personally seen this method (the gun show) and it does work quite well!

[NSB]

There is a clear coat finish on these guns similar to what Turnbull puts on their CCH finish. Turnbull tells everyone to use G96 silicon to wipe the receiver and metal parts with. Anything you put on there that is a solvent or cleaner will damage the finish. I have a Browning similar to yours in finish. I can't remember what Browning calls it but it's not CCH (can't remember lots of things anymore...getting old). Anyway, it's clear coated. If you want to spend the bucks, Turnbull can take that finish off and CCH it if you want to consider it. Another option is just to strip it off and blue it. Ne freebie either way.

[oldred]

I can't remember what Browning calls it but it's not CCH (can't remember lots of things anymore...getting old). Anyway, it's clear coated.

That's what I was thinking and also what Lee, my buddy I called this morning, said. That Browning didn't actually color case harden those receivers and that they have a "faux" chemical Color case finish much like Ruger used. I was a bit puzzled about the case hardening because I was almost certain that the Browning receivers are all through hardened 4140 alloy, the addition of carbon during case hardening would make 4140 brittle and prone to cracking, for instance this is what Wyoming Armory says about color casing 4140'

"We reserve the right to refuse certain items for case coloring. Call before you send your items to us. Some modern 4140 alloy parts should not be case colored"

Turnbull has a secret method of doing color casing on through hardening steels like 4140 but even they won't color case just any 4140 part. If that really is a chemical "faux" color casing on the Browning receivers that would better explain the type of damage in those pics, it looks more like damaged paint or another type of chemical coating rather than an oxidized surface like color casing and that would also explain why a solvent might damage it. 4140 alloy steel is stronger than the low to medium carbon steels (such as 8620) normally used when a receiver is to be case hardened so it makes sense that Browning would do this on their super strong rifles just as Ruger chose to do on certain pistols, if indeed that's what they did.

[oldred]

Ah, Mr Google is indeed our friend! Turns out that Browning does use 4140 and it is a true color case hardening but done in an entirely different method than the standard carbon pack. These things are apparently, to put it in much simplified terms, basically treated in a heated Potassium Cyanide solution that imparts an even harder surface to the 4140 along with the colors and it does all this without making the 4140 alloy brittle and thus compromising the strength.

Super heated Potassium Cyanide! Wow, it's no wonder that not many places can do this process!