Curious about swaging.....

[rondog]

So, I'm developing a curiosity about this making bullets out of empty brass cases thing. Where can a guy find out more about this? Books, videos, etc.? I'd like to know the process, what tools/equipment are needed, and where to find the equipment.

I really don't want to search through hundreds of posts to scrape up bits and pieces of info here and there! I just want to learn some basics to determine if it's feasible for me to pursue. Might be way too expensive to even consider, I don't know.

It's just that I can find so much .22lr, 9mm Luger, and .40S&W brass at the range that it seems a shame to not at least see what else can be done with them.

[tiger762]

Well, basically 22LR can be turned into 223. 9mm brass is very close to 40cal and 40S&W brass is close in diameter to 44cal.

I've done 22-->223 and 40-->44. The finished bullet weight will vary. Got to anneal the brass! What you'll likely do is cast up bullets that you'll use as cores. The punch you'll use will probably have a pointed end, to make sure it doesn't crush the jacket mouth. If you want to get into it without spending too much, see if CH4D still has some swage die sets. The price was $249. I recently picked up a 38cal set. Two dies. The first one compresses the lead core inside whatever you're using as a jacket. The second die will point form. A 3-die set will include a core swage. This will true the diameter and length of the cylindrical shaped core and will bleed off to make the weight uniform. Meant for a reloading press. Use a rubber mallet to eject. The use of "swage lube" is a must. Basically it is lanolin and castor oil.

[dilly]

I've looked into it and decided it wasn't for me at this time. I'm not saying it's not worth it, but my funds and availability make it not worth my time. Maybe if I ever get more time or money.

Some often overlooked startup costs:

Most people find it all works a lot better if you wet tumble the brass with stainless pins. I don't have a good stainless tumbler or pins. To get a nice high volume one can be pretty expensive, and the pins can add up too.

Most people buy a ram auto eject even if they do use their old reloading press. I don't think they're outrageously expensive but they aren't free. I think you have to knock the bullet out of the die each time if you don't get this, and that sounded annoying to me.

Some people may or may not be able to find an easy solution for brass annealing. I didn't see an easy way to overcome that obstacle.

The lead used must be pretty soft. Lots of people have tons of COWW or range scrap, but it's suggested to use softer lead than that. The lead wire some people use isn't cheap, but a Lee mold that gets swaged to the right size can be reasonably cheap.

I personally hate using tools that aren't what most people consider "overengineered." Using a reloading press for swaging is the only thing I might be able to afford, but I have a feeling I would immediately find myself wishing I had some gigantic thing that could crush a battleship.

[R.Ph. 380]

I've looked into it and decided it wasn't for me at this time. I'm not saying it's not worth it, but my funds and availability make it not worth my time. Maybe if I ever get more time or money.

Some often overlooked startup costs:

Most people find it all works a lot better if you wet tumble the brass with stainless pins. I don't have a good stainless tumbler or pins. To get a nice high volume one can be pretty expensive, and the pins can add up too.

Most people buy a ram auto eject even if they do use their old reloading press. I don't think they're outrageously expensive but they aren't free. I think you have to knock the bullet out of the die each time if you don't get this, and that sounded annoying to me.

Some people may or may not be able to find an easy solution for brass annealing. I didn't see an easy way to overcome that obstacle.

The lead used must be pretty soft. Lots of people have tons of COWW or range scrap, but it's suggested to use softer lead than that. The lead wire some people use isn't cheap, but a Lee mold that gets swaged to the right size can be reasonably cheap.

I personally hate using tools that aren't what most people consider "overengineered." Using a reloading press for swaging is the only thing I might be able to afford, but I have a feeling I would immediately find myself wishing I had some gigantic thing that could crush a battleship.

Remember the R.C.B.S. acronym stands for Rock Chucker Bullet Swage. For 22lr to .223 I used nothing but my RCBS reloading press. Lots of economies Harbor Freight sells a little rock tumbler that's perfect for 500 pieces of 22lr at a time. Watch the SS section of Cast Boolits for bargains.

Bill

[pertnear]

So, I'm developing a curiosity about this making bullets out of empty brass cases thing. Where can a guy find out more about this? Books, videos, etc.? I'd like to know the process, what tools/equipment are needed, and where to find the equipment.

I really don't want to search through hundreds of posts to scrape up bits and pieces of info here and there! I just want to learn some basics to determine if it's feasible for me to pursue. Might be way too expensive to even consider, I don't know.

It's just that I can find so much .22lr, 9mm Luger, and .40S&W brass at the range that it seems a shame to not at least see what else can be done with them.

MightyThor's post here on this forum, although is for .22LR cases, pretty much explains it all w/pictures:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...tart-to-finish

I bought my equipment from RCE including a dedicated press. The Sea Girt Press was $300 & well worth it. The dies/punches were $550. Miscellaneous adds up to about a $1,000 to make .224's out of RF cases. Remember, each different caliber bullet requires a new set of die/punches, about $500. I bought a Lee pot for $30 just for annealing. I'd also say that the SS pin tumbler is a must. But look on the good side, it works great on all your reloading cases!

I know I will never make enough bullets to pay for my equipment, but if you enjoy reloading & casting it is a natural next step. AR fans that shoot a lot of .223 this the way to get ammo down to under a dime/round.

Enjoy...FWIW

[Pipefitter]

Do a google search for Dave Corbin Bullet Swage, he has a downloadable book for free that explains swaging in detail.
Also there are plenty youtube videos on bullet swaging.

40S&W brass untrimmed makes about a 300gn .452 bullet, trimmed it can make down to a 230gn bullet.

I do not use the SS pins with wet tumbling, instead I use an ultrasonic cleaner.

[Sasquatch-1]

If you don't have TIME and MONEY Swaging might not be for you. I swage jacketed 44 's out of 40 S&W brass. But, I am retired and have a fair retirement.

As far as youtube videos go Ammosmith and daywalker627 have some nice ones. There are many others, but as can be attested to, watch them and evaluate them yourself. There are many people on youtube that don't know what they are doing.

As far as tumbling the jackets after annealing, you do not need SS pins. I use an old 4 qt. crockpot (can be picked up at thrift stores or yard sales for next to nothing) and citric acid (available in the canning goods isle of variety stores and grocery stores) and cook the brass in a water/acid bath for a couple hours. I then tumble over night in my vibratory tumbler that I have had for decades. They come out very nice.

PS one thing that I find I like to do is take a bullet that I have casted and lubed and then use my swaging dies to reshape it. Almost all irregularities are removed.

[rondog]

Well, I already have a small cement mixer and 25# of stainless steel pins that I use for tumbling large amounts of brass, and I've been doing that very successfully for several years. I also have a Kenmore electric range/oven in the garage that's dedicated to powdercoating and other hobby uses.

So at least I'm ahead of the curve on those two counts.....

[KAYDADOG]

I originally started swaging several years ago strictly as a hobby where the initial investment will probably out way purchasing finished bullets unless you will be using 5000-10000 rounds of a specific caliber over several years.

Pistol dies per caliber will run around $500 to $1000 dollars depending on die type used.
Rifle die sets can easily run double the price of pistol dies depending on number of dies needed, four, five or six die sets.
Currently using Corbin H-style dies for a hydraulic press setup and Corbin lead wire extruding die setup.
These dies are massive and should last a lifetime plus. Talked to Dave back then and they only cost several hundred dollars more than a standard set, well worth the investment.
The above costs are only to get started with one caliber and a good press is still required.

I originally was going to build the manual press design talked about on this site but decided to spend the additional money to build a fully automated four post hydraulic press. Based on Corbin's top of the line hydraulic press mine will out perform his with all features fully programmable through a display feature and with half stroke and full stroke modes. Decided to go this route because I have over 20/years experience in programming automated equipment with hydraulic and machining experience and I also had most of the controls. Most of the components needed were building the hydraulic unit and press itself. It only took me three to four weeks to complete but it was well worth it.

If you ever had the chance to try a hydraulic press you would never want to go back to a manual press. Every parameter is programmable and every operation is repeatable, it never changes based on the current parameters set. Swaging lead cores almost never deviate more than 0.05/grain depending on the accuracy of your scale.

Swaging lead wire doesn't get any easier. Set pressure at about 1750/psi press cycle start and about 2-3/seconds later you have a 24" length of lead wire. Just need soft lead to make die billets.

If someone is really serious about getting into Swaging there really isn't any cheap way to get started. Quality dies are required to achieve quality finished bullets. You can save on the press depending on which way you want to go, manual or hydraulic.

I also like to be self sufficient and not rely on the current market and constant high component prices and the recent lack of components.

Hope some of this helps. Hobbies always cost and this one does cost more than a several hundred dollars.

[cainttype]

I've been swaging various rifle and handgun projectiles for about 35 years. All of that on small, dedicated presses, like the Corbin Mighty Mite... That limits the diameter of the dies I use, so the larger presses have a definite advantage with larger dies when large diameter projectiles are on the menu.
I don't think I'll ever see swaging as a cost effective alternative for most applications. The most reasonable would seem to be 22s out of spent rimfire casings (6MMs can be considered, too) and high quality open tips for a serious competitor/shooter. Of course, if rationing was ever implemented again that view could rapidly change.
For my main interests, I have always used swaging as a way to experiment with ideas that are unavailable or very expensive/difficult to obtain. In that regard, it has been an outstanding investment (shooting high quality bonded core bullets with tempered jackets long before they were commonly available, for instance). I do not believe, however, that the average shooter will ever find the hobby cost-effective. For most, I'd think investing in good casting equipment (moulds, melting pots, sizer/lubers) would serve them much better.