Moving to include 45acp

[runfiverun]

nice to see you post Joni.

the Lady knows 1911's bout as good as anybody I know, and far better than I ever will.

[Treetop]

I now own two Rock Island 1911s and frankly I don't see how they produce such nice pistols for the price! Mine are both 5" tactical models, one in .45 Auto and one in 9mm. I probably have close to 4K rounds through them collectively with absolutely NO malfunctions of any kind.

These were all cast boolit handloads. 200 gr, H&G 68, 5.5 gr of WW 231 in the .45 and the 358242 120 gr. using HS-6 powder (can't remember the powder charge right now, but it was somewhere near the middle of the published range for that boolit in the latest Lyman cast boolit handbook.

Both my pistols were low to mid $400 each from Bud's. At first I didn't like the FLGRs (full length guide rods) but they do provide much smoother cycling even though they are slightly more difficult to field strip. Hope this helps, Tt.

[GhostHawk]

Love my Springfield Armory 1911. But, if I had to start from scratch, Rock Island Armory is where I would start.

Those guys have been building pistols one at a time since WWII, they earned that reputation for being solid and good to deal with.

[Tackleberry41]

The 45 hi points can have large groove diameter bores.......shoot a .453 or .454" boolit and things come together nicely. I loaded for a friend and .452 boolits just didn't do it.

Guess it makes sense..sort of. Its a cheap gun so making it shoot the vast array of off the shelf .451 sized 45 ACP ball ammo probably would be a pretty stupid idea, when it can be built to only really work with custom sized hand loaded ammo.

[RobS]

Guess it makes sense..sort of. Its a cheap gun so making it shoot the vast array of off the shelf .451 sized 45 ACP ball ammo probably would be a pretty stupid idea, when it can be built to only really work with custom sized hand loaded ammo.

No reason to be condescending. It should have shot jacketed ammo decently. You didn't mention the use of jacketed bullets and I thought you were taking about cast boolits................possibly a .002 or greater out of spec barrel. I've had other manufactures that have out of spec barrels too and not a problem as I shoot cast in all my firearms anyway. I had a Ruger P89 45 and it had a .452 groove diameter and I have a Rossi Lever action also with a .452 groove diameter so it happens.

[BigAl52]

Keep an American at work buy the Ruger 1911 and don't look back. Great gun and good customer service. Al

[Char-Gar]

The 45 ACP is a wonderful cast bullet round and very easy to reload for accuracy and reliability in an autopistol. reloading the round gives some folks fits, mainly because they try and reinvent the wheel and are not willing to stick to the techniques and components that have been tested and refined by over 100 years of experience.

There are a number of good handguns that chamber the 45 ACP round and a fellow should get the one that tickles his fancy. However if a person is neutral about make and model, I would most strongly suggest a good basic 1911. Why? Because this is the pistol designed around the cartridge and it is full of tradition, history and experience. It is the natural home of the round.

I find the prices of high end 1911s to be staggering. These pistols are loaded down with so call improvements, but I doubt that many are actual improvements. They are like electric windows and power seats on cars, they might add a little convenience, but they don't improve the basic notion of an automobile. When it comes to 1911 pistols, John Browning got it right the first time.

I started shooting and reloading for the 45 ACP round in 1961 with a USGI Remington-Rand 1911A1. I learned how to make the thing work for me in spite of the itty bitty sights and the less than wonderful trigger pull. Those GI sights are as accurate as any, just slow to use. The GI trigger was brought to acceptable limits with the use of a trigger shoe.

I still favor basic 1911A1 designs and currently have a Colt Government Model and a Norinco 1911A1. I have had several Norincos and they have all been well made solid, reliable pistols. Sadly they are no longer imported into the US, but are around on the used market.

I have not owned, but have handled and shot the Rock Island, Remington, Taurus and Ruger low end off shore versions. I have also had a Springfield GI. They all seem to work well for me. If I was going to get into the 1911 madness, and wanted to get a good reliable low end pistol, the Rock Island would be a good choice.

For fun here are my two 1911 pistols..the Colt and the Norinco.

[Blackwater]

A friend of mine was the chief instructor at FLETC in Brunswick, Ga. where they train all the feds to shoot. He told me that in their testing of various guns, which they were called upon to do from time to time, that the Ruger SR-45 was the absolute most indestructible pistol they'd ever tested. He said they're a little "clunky" feeling in the hand, and not the most accurate, but still plenty accurate enough, and if you're on a tight budget as so many of us are today, they can be had at very reasonable prices, which might be a big attraction. I'm not a fan of DA autos, so I've never owned one, but thought I'd pass along his assessment in case it might be useful to you. Some good comments above, too, and anything 1911 will always hold my respect, and the lower priced ones will do VERY well for 95+% of what we really need to do with one. Lots of options, and FWIW, I'd try to stretch to get the one that felt best in my hand, pointed and handled best, and was still in a price range I could reach. With guns lasting as long as they do, stretching my dollars to get one I really liked and felt good with has always worked out well in the long run, but the really spendy ones really don't offer NEARLY As much advantages as their prices would indicate, except in the narrowest and most limited applications. FWIW?

[stubbicatt]

I'm going to be "that guy" for a minute. My input on Ruger customer service is that it is quite poor indeed.

I purchased a full size SR1911. It shoots just fine, and overall I am pleased with the gun. As purchased, however, it would not allow one to clear the action by retracting the slide and ejecting a live round out the ejection port, which is the right way, and the way the owners manual instructs one to do. I placed 2 calls to Ruger customer service, they admitted they are aware of the problem, but will not take action to remedy it. They say, remove the magazine, pull the slide back and jiggle it until the loaded round clears the extractor and tumbles out the magazine well.

This is not acceptable.

I had this issue addressed by my gunsmith, and it will now allow one to clear the arm by pulling the slide back and sending the round out the ejection port. Love the pistol now, and it is a keeper. But I do NOT care for Ruger customer service, and for that reason I would recommend purchasing a 1911 from another maker.

YMMV

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Wow! You got lots of advice, almost all of it good. Seems like it's running heavily in favor of the RIA 1911. Oddly, although I've got lots of .45s that's the one that I don't have, but so many distinguished panelists have recommended it I wouldn't hesitate to buy one. There are/have been literally dozens of 1911 .45 clones, and it's been my experience that all shoot well or can be made to do so. Since there is such agreement in that area I'm not going to go over it again, but I'll address a couple of other options:

First, you might look at the EAA Witness. They're currently making them with poly frames, but they made an all-steel version in .45 ACP also. You might still find a new one, but might also find a nice used one in that $400 price range. They are high quality, reliable, limited a bit by a 10-round mag (but then our beloved 1911 runs 7 or 8). The only criticism is that, like everything based on the CZ-75 design, some find it a long reach to the trigger when the pistol is un-cocked. It can be carried "cocked and locked" though, which solves the problem. Unless you're the nervous type.

Already mentioned, the CZ97B. Quite a lot like the Witness in design, same pluses and minuses, a little heavier in the balance area because it has a full length dust cover. High quality gun.

No one mentioned Para-Ordnance P-14, P-13, P-12 series of pistols. The number indicates the amount of rounds in the magazine. The grip is thicker because of the high capacity magazines, and with average-sized hands I'm able to manage them nicely--but it takes getting used to. Here you have the reliability of the basic 1911 design with more ammo. What's not to like?

My very favorite--the Para-Ord LDA. I bought mine when they first appeared and still had a spur hammer--which is useless as you can't maintain it in the cocked position, nor can you actually thumb cock the hammer. They redesigned that out of the gun. I just like mine a little better than the later model because the hammer looks good. But--talk about smooooth.....and if you're a double action revolver shooter you'll like the trigger pull.These come standard or high capacity--so one can be found to fit your hand.
Attachment 143263

One last comment, about the AMT Hardballers. I've had a pair for years, again purchased when they were new on the market. At that time they were made entirely of one grade of stainless which tended to gall itself in use if the parts weren't properly lubricated. The recommended lube was white lithium-based grease mixed with 30 wt. motor oil about 4:1. Enough to turn the white grease brownish, but not liquefy it. Great stuff, and still use it today for most of my lube needs on all my firearms. Later in production they used three different grades of stainless and largely eliminated the problem, but I've never experienced the problem with my earlier pistols and have used the homemade lube faithfully. So don't get scared away from a Hardballer at the right price.

[TXGunNut]

Haven't bought a new 1911 in quite some time so this thread is quite interesting as I'm thinking of adding a LW Commander to the stable. I'm leaning towards the SR1911 but several posts have given me food for thought.
Good thread, thanks OP and thanks for all the thoughtful responses.

[xacex]

A friend of mine was the chief instructor at FLETC in Brunswick, Ga. where they train all the feds to shoot. He told me that in their testing of various guns, which they were called upon to do from time to time, that the Ruger SR-45 was the absolute most indestructible pistol they'd ever tested. He said they're a little "clunky" feeling in the hand, and not the most accurate, but still plenty accurate enough, and if you're on a tight budget as so many of us are today, they can be had at very reasonable prices, which might be a big attraction. I'm not a fan of DA autos, so I've never owned one, but thought I'd pass along his assessment in case it might be useful to you. Some good comments above, too, and anything 1911 will always hold my respect, and the lower priced ones will do VERY well for 95+% of what we really need to do with one. Lots of options, and FWIW, I'd try to stretch to get the one that felt best in my hand, pointed and handled best, and was still in a price range I could reach. With guns lasting as long as they do, stretching my dollars to get one I really liked and felt good with has always worked out well in the long run, but the really spendy ones really don't offer NEARLY As much advantages as their prices would indicate, except in the narrowest and most limited applications. FWIW?

I am going to repeat what I said earlier. Do not get a Ruger SR-45 unless you are an engineer. Even then it will make you shake your head when you take it down to clean. Besides the Mark II pistol it has been the worse I have had the displeasure of working on. And they are not indestructible. The spring mechanism for the slide stop is a bad design destines to make your gun a single shot. Stick with 1911's for reliability, and design. RIA or others as stated, and the Glock if you want a reliable polymer pistol. BTW, I have not taken my Kahr aprt yet, but it appears by all account they are clones as far as function of a Glock. Might save some money there.
I am not singling you out Blackwater, I just have first hand dealing with that Ruger, and hate it.

[A pause for the COZ]

Another vote for a Rock Island Armory 1911. For as cheap as you can get them. You will be hard pressed to find a better deal.
I have had my standard Gov model for 4 years now and have literally thousand upon thousands of rounds through it.
Eats every thing I put into it, Has no issues with any brand of bullets or primers.
Its just a good solid working mans gun.

[Whiterabbit]

Bill, I also don't care much for the 45 acp round and do not own any gun chambered for that cartridge.

But if I did, since it surely would be a one-and-done situation to check the box, it would be a 1911A1. All Steel. The design was right when it was first used, why meddle with success.

On the other hand, when ditto 223, I chose M16A1 or as close as I could get. When it's not a matter of ballistic interest or shooting function, History trumps all.

[Tackleberry41]

No reason to be condescending. It should have shot jacketed ammo decently. You didn't mention the use of jacketed bullets and I thought you were taking about cast boolits................possibly a .002 or greater out of spec barrel. I've had other manufactures that have out of spec barrels too and not a problem as I shoot cast in all my firearms anyway. I had a Ruger P89 45 and it had a .452 groove diameter and I have a Rossi Lever action also with a .452 groove diameter so it happens.

Wasnt trying to say anything in particular, just that seems a bit..short sighted for a company to chamber a gun in 45 ACP, with an almost .454 barrel. The guy in question was using whatever stuff he bought at the gunshop, standard jacketed ball ammo.

[Bill*B]

Most shooters about my age love the old 1911 platform because it is so familiar - as one writer said "picking it up is like shaking hands with an old friend". However - it is a 100 year old design. If you can afford its hefty price, by all means look at the Sig P220. Takedown is much simpler than the Colt, and to my mind (Now, don't flame me here! It's just my opinion!) that double action trigger and the decocker lever make it safer to handle.

[RobS]

I'll second the notion of an EAA Witness. They are easy guns to field strip and pretty easy to disassemble. They are built well by the Italian company Tanfoglio however the possible issues with EAA customer service should not be over looked. EAA imports and does not have the best customer service if things break down.

[Bigslug]

The two main categories of handgun are:

1. 1911's.

2. Other. Nothing wrong with branching out into "Other", but it's still "Other".

One of my officers won a Rock Island and brought it to me to detail inspect for giggles. Well made and shoots well. They definitely have a good thing going that I don't think can be topped for the price.

A trap many fall into is the perceived "need" to build/own 1911's with sniper rifle tolerances. Once you pause for a minute and ask yourself "What is this thing actually FOR?", you get over that fairly quickly.

[101VooDoo]

As much as I love my 1911s, the Springfield XDm is a outstanding gun for the price.

[TXGunNut]

....A trap many fall into is the perceived "need" to build/own 1911's with sniper rifle tolerances. Once you pause for a minute and ask yourself "What is this thing actually FOR?", you get over that fairly quickly. -Bigslug


DING DING DING DING DING!!! We have a winner! OTOH it's amazing the accuracy that can be wrung out of a 1911 by a talented 'smith and an equally talented pistol shooter.