44 mag. 1-38 twist ?

[45-70marlin]

I need to throw a question out there. My buddy says the 1-38 twist in 44mag. will not stablize a bullet 240gr. and over very well. He had a ruger bolt gun in 44 mag. and it was not very accurate with the heaver bullets. He wanted to buy a new marlin 1894 in 44mag. but didnt because of the twist in 1-38. Anyone out there have good luck with the 1-38 twist with the heavy bullets? He has a 444 in a H&R single shot that has a 1-20 twist that does real good with the heavy bullets. Thanks for your input.

[Outpost75]

I have Marlin 1894S rifles in .44-40 and .44 Mag. They both shoot 240-250 grain lead bullets just fine.

The .44 Mag also shoots the 300-grain Federal factory load well. No issues.

[MarkP]

I have a Rem 788 in 44 Mag with 1:38" it shoots 240 gr & 265 gr jacketed just fine also shot cast 310 gr WFN out to 100 yds with no signs of key holing.

[longbow]

I've got one with 1:38" twist microgroove that shoots just fine with up to 270 gr. boolits. I tried a 300 gr. RNFP that would not stabilize past about 75 yards and keyholed by 100 yards and so did Hornady 300 gr. bullets . Never tried the WNFP or Lee 300/310 gr. styles though.

Anyway, 240 gr. to 265 gr. should be no problem in bullets or boolits, beyond that boolit shape seems to play a part in whether it will stabilize or not. Oh, and RanchDog claimed his 300 gr. boolits with wide meplate remained stable to 300 yards so again wide meplat design. That boolit has a good reputation so if you are looking at heavy I'd try that one.

Longbow

[dubber123]

I have had very good accuracy with 240's and 270's to at least 100 yds. with mine. All were driven at max velocity.

[45-70marlin]

Long Bow, you say[ boolit shape seems to play a part] How so? what shape seems to be better? OutPost, are they rifles made by remington? My buddy is also following this post. This is interesting info. Thanks all.

[Outpost75]

My Marlins are JMs from the 1990s. Critical factor is ratio of bullet length to diameter.
Twist in calibers times bullet length in calibers equals 150, Greenhill Rule is good approximation for blunt, flatnosed bullets.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Bullet shape... Outpost75 stated it well. The longer a bullet is the more spin it needs. This can be accomplished with a faster rifling twist or more bullet speed. So long pointy nosed bullet that weighs 280 grains needs a faster rotational spin to remain stabile (nose first without wobble) at any range than lets say a very blunt nosed (LBT type) 280 grainer of the same caliber made of the same material.
That is why larger caliber rifles are made. If you need a 300 grainer at 200 yards to get the job done try a caliber 444 Marlin (same diameter) or a 45-70. Fatter bullets of the same weight need less rotational spin at the same range as they are still stabile out there at impact distance.
That is the very reason a caliber 50 (50 Alaskan) lever rifle looks very interesting. Even fired at 50-70 velocity a 450 grainer chugging along at a modest 1350 fps from a slow twist barrel will be stabile as far as my over 60 eye balls can still place the front sight accurately in real hunting conditions. Short and fat is a cast boolit shooters delight for easily reached stability.
Mike in Peru

[44man]

Never had any luck with the Marlin past 50 yards with any boolit. I would never shoot at a deer past about 65 yards. Never had a key hole but I never knew where a boolit would hit. I was lucky a few times with a few close at 100 but that was it. Marlin changed the .444 to 1 in 20 but when I called, they sent me the Greenhill pages, well Greenhill does not work.
The gun might handle a 200 gr or RB. If you can't spin up a boolit in a 1 in 38" .444, how can you do it in the little .44?

[tja6435]

Was it a 77/44 Ruger bolt gun? The twist is 1:20 with these rifles

[pietro]

.

FWIW:

The 240gr boolit isn't considered a heavy boolit load in the .44 Remington Magnum, it's the normal, design standard, used in factory loads.

Under 240gr (like 180gr) are considered light boolit loads; over 240gr (like 265gr & 300gr) are consider heavy boolit loads.

My Marlin Model 1894P (.44mag, 16" ported bbl) shoots 240gr factory j-word boolits like a house afire.

I would consider that the OP's friend's rifle might need the muzzle's crown, and/or rifling at the muzzle, needing a hard look.




.

[45-70marlin]

It was a Ruger 77/44. He could not get it to shoot any bullet good. From what I am seeing here the Marlin for the most part will shoot the 240 gr. and up bullets. 44Man, how old is your marlin 44mag.?

[Outpost75]

It is also necessary to understand what constitutes a realistic accuracy standard for a lever action rifle firing full power hunting ammunition. My .44 Magnum and .44-40 Marlins will produce 3-inch, TEN shot groups at 100 yards with my hunting loads, using a receiver peep sight or low powered hunting scope. I consider that adequate performance for a utility rifle. I'm not taking it to Camp Perry or attempting 200-yards at game with it. I see 150 yards as a practical limit, on rare occasions.

If hunting someplace where shots over 150 yards are the norm, rather than the rare exception, I have several bolt action .30-'06s suited for that work. But most of my hunting these says is in dense forest and brushy edges of farm fields less than 40 acres. Hence the levers.

[longbow]

I think it has been covered but boolit shape does come into play. The shorter and fatter the better with slow twist so a very large meplat 300 gr. boolit may well work. I only tried an RNFP boolit and factory Hornady "J" bullet both of 300 grs. and neither of those would stabilize past about 75 yards. Good to 50 yards or so then groups opened up and by 100 yards I had keyholes.

The RanchDog boolit is a short fat RFNP with wide meplat and RanchDog claimed if remained stable to 300 yards. I believe him. Another fellow told me he shot a 300 gr. WNFP also with very large meplat and he also claimed good accuracy at longer ranges if driven to max. velocity.

If you can find a RanchDog mould I would go with that. NOE was making a clone but I can't recall if it was 265 gr. or 300 gr. but either way it is a good boolit.

If in doubt try buying some pre-cast boolits of various designs and weights. Beartooth bullets should have what you need.

Now of equal or even more importance is fit to bore. My Marlin has a typical "fat" bore and needs boolits of at least 0.432". If smaller, accuracy is poor and leading happens. So, even if the boolit design is good, if fit is poor then you get gas cutting and poor accuracy along with leading.

I started out my .44 life with a Lyman 429421 classic Elmer Keith design and couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with it in my Marlin. Well, it cast at 0.429" so undersize for my 0.4315" groove diameter. As soon as I fattened up boolits, I got good accuracy.

Know your groove diameter and make sure your mould casts at least 0.002" over then size if you want to at least 0.001" over. My gun likes fat boolits and I shoot up to 0.434" with good results.

Longbow

[hpdrifter]

that's one reason I will not buy one. It may or may not.

[snowwolfe]

I just don't understand why the slow rate of twist. What purpose does it serve?

[longbow]

My suspicion is that it is a leftover from the days of .44-40 and light boolits. No other good reason I can think of anyway.

I am guessing Marlin figured people would shoot the same relatively lightweight handgun boolits they were loading for handguns and what factory loads came with. Whoda thunk someone might want to load heavier boolits? A faster twist wouldn't have hurt for light boolits and would have made the guns more versatile for heavier boolits but look who I am preaching to... Marlin should have foreseen this or at least corrected for it.

Longbow

[Scharfschuetze]

I just don't understand why the slow rate of twist. What purpose does it serve?

I've always been at a loss for the 1 in 38" twist in Marlins (and Winchesters?). After all, were not the Smith & Wesson Model 29 revolvers, first introduced in 1955, equipped with 1 in 18 3/4" twist barrels? I would have thought that that would have set the standard for the calibre.

[Lonegun1894]

I have a H&R Handi-rifle with a 1:38" twist. It didn't shoot worth beans til I quit sizing to .430" cause it slugs at .4325". Now that I size to .434", and got lucky and found a Lyman 429421 that casts at .435" and 268grs, it does a consistent 2.5-3" average with irons at 100 yds. And I personally like the slow twist cause it allows me to use softer lead for expansion, while not giving me any leading.

[45-70marlin]

Longbow, I thought the 240gr. was the first loading of the 44mag.