Core seating questions from a swaging first timer?

[guywitha3006]

Ok so to set the tone, I have a new set of CH4D 9mm dies and a Rockchucker at the moment (Waiting impatiently for my Walnut Hill press...like a 7 year old on December 24th). I could not wait any longer so I wanted to try and set it up on the Rockchucker to start getting the feel for everything. I am using RCE .660" .355 jackets and lee .32 caliber 93 grain bullet (closer to 100 grain as its pure lead). We had a bonfire Friday night so I annealed some of the cases (and gave them a citric acid tumble and dried them in the oven today). Started reading the instructions and thought I had the core seat die set up but the core seat die is almost the exact same diameter (within 1/2 a thousandth or so) of the jacket. Long story short, the jacket crushed.

So is the core seating die punch supposed to fit inside the upside down jacket?

If it is supposed to fit inside the jacket, can I just polish a few thousandths off the punch?

Do I need the core seat operation if I do place the lead in the jacket and melt it in a dutch oven (this is more of a curiosity thing)?

The goal for this die set up ideally will be ~124 grain hollow point bullet. Any help is greatly appreciated!

[Pipefitter]

As I recall the 9mm case has quite a bit of taper to it, you might try expanding the case before seating the cores. The core seating punch should fit inside the case/jacket. The purpose of seating cores in the jacket is to expand the jacket/case to just under final diameter, the point form die will bring that up to finished diameter.

[guywitha3006]

Thanks pipefitter, how would you expand the jacket? It is not a cartridge case jacket no Tim to hold it.

[Pipefitter]

Sorry, missed that in the OP. Try and center the punch in the die before you lock the adjustment in. Also try come jackets that haven't been annealed. Will a jacket slip over the core seat punch?

[tiger762]

I have both the 0.500" and 0.660" jackets from RCECO. The 0.660" is way too long for 124gr 9mm. I found that 180gr is about right for that length. Keep in mind the CH4D sets are meant to have lead exposed above the jacket mouth after the core seat and before the point form. I have Ch4D sets in both 38cal and 44cal. You'd have to use a cone shaped pointed core seat punch, like what one might use to make a hollow point. That assures that the jacket mouth won't be crushed. Still though, these die sets are not meant to make full-length jacketed rounds. But if your heart is set on it, use a Lee bullet sizer punch that fits inside the jacket mouth. It has to be a fairly close fit, lest you have lead foil blow-by..

[goblism]

Here is my easy fix.
Buy a 32-33 calibe push through sizer punch from lee. It will maybe hAve a little bleed past the punch but shouldn't matter too much on handguns

[goblism]

Here is my easy fix.
Buy a 32-33 calibe push through sizer punch from lee. It will maybe hAve a little bleed past the punch but shouldn't matter too much on handguns.

Edit... I see tiger said the same thing

[garandsrus]

If you are making a bullet with no exposed lead, the punch has to fit inside the jacket. If lead is expose, the punch will fit the size of the seating die, and does not go inside the jacket at all. Two different punch sizes.

[guywitha3006]

Thank for the replies, tiger what size jacket would you say will put me in the 124 grain hollow point range from RCE? I thought I talked to Richard and he said to go with the .660", I guess it gives me an excuse to save up for a .357 die set if they will be in the 180 range.

I used a 93 grain (closer to 100 grain) lee .32 slug for a core, so I am guessing a .32 punch work best. Although would .309 punch work? I know I have a lee push through in that size, other wise I will just order a lee .32 sizer.

[goblism]

Try the 30, I guessing it might be too small but the 30 might work in the mean while.
Titan reloading could probably sell you a 32 cal for a few bucks and like $2 shipping if you call them and ask them to ship it as cheap as possible

[tiger762]

Richard might have been thinking of the use of his own dies, which indeed will make full-length soft point or hollow point. His dies will include an "inside the jacket" punch. With the CH4D set, the 0.5" jacket should get you in the ballpark. *Might* have to trim it back a bit. I use the 0.5" to make 158gr. One method I use to trim jackets is a drill press and counterbore. I just checked my notes and the 0.5" long jackets weigh 15 grains and the 0.66" weigh 19 grains. So for 124gr you'll need a 109 grain core. When you use a sizer punch, even if you do get blow-by, it's no big deal. The point form will deal with it.

I love swaging

Thank for the replies, tiger what size jacket would you say will put me in the 124 grain hollow point range from RCE? I thought I talked to Richard and he said to go with the .660", I guess it gives me an excuse to save up for a .357 die set if they will be in the 180 range.

I used a 93 grain (closer to 100 grain) lee .32 slug for a core, so I am guessing a .32 punch work best. Although would .309 punch work? I know I have a lee push through in that size, other wise I will just order a lee .32 sizer.

[guywitha3006]

tiger thanks for the info, looks like RCE has a .475" Jacket instock, I will try a few of those. While we are on the topic what is a good size for .45 ACP from RCE, .580" is the shortest he has in stock.

I call tonight a "learning experience", on the plus side I got some chunks of lead smashed into copper that look vaguely like a bullet.

[tiger762]

Oh yeah, I forgot about the 0.475" he has. Sounds perfect.

I'm glad you asked about the 45acp I'm closing in on 10,000 45's using the 0.58" jacket. Good for 200gr and 230gr. My RCECO die set is 452 with 18-degree truncated cone. For 200gr, the jacket is flush with the lead tip. For 230gr, there is a bit (maybe a millimeter?) of exposed lead.

The 0.58" jacket weighs 24 grains. So for 200gr, I swage a 176gr core and swage 206gr core for the 230gr. I use a Lee 6-cavity 40-175 mold to cast up raw cores for the 200gr. Using range scrap "mystery metal", the mold throws 182gr, which is perfect for swaging down to 176gr. RCECO uses 0.418" core swage for the 45cal, hence why I was looking for molds of around 40cal. For the 230gr, I tried to use a Lee 410-210 mold, but for whatever reason it was throwing around 222gr. Swaging it down to 206gr liked to wore my arm out. So I went on NOE's site and found a 0.363" with nominal weight of 200gr. Lucky for me, with mystery metal it throws a 209gr core which is easy to swage down to 206gr.

Why the 0.363"? Shrugs. Just happened to see he had a 5-cavity in stock and it was nominally 200gr and of course it fits in the core swage die (0.418")

Swaging, how I adore thee

tiger thanks for the info, looks like RCE has a .475" Jacket instock, I will try a few of those. While we are on the topic what is a good size for .45 ACP from RCE, .580" is the shortest he has in stock.

I call tonight a "learning experience", on the plus side I got some chunks of lead smashed into copper that look vaguely like a bullet.

[goblism]

I have about 800 of 45 jackets that are 0.51" long. These work great for 185 gr XTP style bullets but no one stocks this size anymore. I only have ~900 left.

[guywitha3006]

Well I ordered some of the .475" .355 jackets to try and a few .58" 45 jackets. I ordered the .45 dies last week, yeah more waiting, lol. Its a race between the .45 dies and .45 jackets.

Anybody know of a way to roll excess jacket into a CH4d swaged bullet or is that a buy a whole new die problem? I am torn, I am excited and just want to start hammering out bullets... but I learned early on in reloading that slow and steady is way better in the end, so slow and right it is. Thanks again for all the help.