I really want to shoot Lyman 525 Slugs! Advice needed!

[Y-man]

Guys, I need some help. Wise, experienced advice.

I recently got a rifled slug barrel for my Mossberg 500A, and recently went shooting/ testing .729 Round Balls [Jeff Tanner mold] and some home-fabricated slugs: 16mm Socket Wrench Slugs.

Note: I am simply pouring out birdshot and replacing with equal or less weight of Round ball or Homemade slugs.

Last testing: the Round balls seemed reasonably accurate, but did not have much velocity: hitting up to 8 inches low of point of aim at 44 yards. [Remember - Birdshot catridges: not actual slug loads.] and the Socket Wrench slugs did much better.

I had initially been excited to be able to use my Lyman 525 mold to cast slugs to shoot with this [Again: simply replacing birdshot with Lyman 525 slug.] but I did the push-down through bore test with all my potential projectiles.

1. Round balls are Bore-size: went through bore with minor push of dowel [Maybe thats why I did not get good performance.]

2. Socket Wrench slugs - bore size: went through bore a bit harder. But went through without having to hammer. [Performed better]

3. Lyman slug, inside shot wad: did not go through bore without some hammering... [So I did not test-fire these]

So now the question is: was I being too hasty/ cautious in discarding the Lyman slugs?
Why?
1. The wads are plastic: because I did not have them sliding through easily does not mean the plastic will not squeeze through the forcing cone and bore on firing, and thus even grip the rifling better...
2. There is a thicker band at the bottom of the shot-cup: I can use a felt wad to raise the slug a little and avoid the "swelling"at the bottom of the shot-cup, so the slug can then pass through the forcing cone/ bore.
3. I can always do a little filing with a hand file or sandpaper on the circumfrence of the shot-cup to be able to go through the forcing cone/ bore more easily.

So I need your advice on what to do.
In your experience: is it possible to shoot Lyman 525 slugs inside a regular birdshot shot-cup through a rifled barrel?
I really would love to shoot those Lyman slugs from my rifled barrel...

[Note: I can only do the "Load Replacement" Reloading, I do not have access to reloading equipment and materials [Proper wads, powder etc...] in my country to build proper slug loads.]

[longbow]

Y-Man:

I can only offer opinion here and not any personal experience with the Lyman sabot slug but here goes anyway.

It is generally accepted that a slug load of equal weight to a shot load generates less pressure due to less bore friction. Also, the plastic shotcup with extrude without a lot of resistance. Based on that I would not hesitate to try the Lyman slugs in shotcups even if your combination is slightly large for the bore.

I have shot some combinations through my guns that dragged considerably but the only "problem" was that wad petals sheared or were flattened out badly due to extrusion ~ no signs of excess pressure. If the round will chamber I would not hesitate to shoot it ~ assuming it is not a full bore oversize hard lead slug with long bearing surface. There I limit oversize to a little over bore diameter for smoothbore.

Again, My opinion.

You might try the bore fit test with a lubricated wad (or lubricated bore)to see if it makes any difference. I suspect the springy plastic is just dragging on the bore a bit.

In my opinion the worst thing that will happen with a too tight fit in a shotcup is that accuracy may be poor if the wad petals fail.

On that note, since you have limited supplies and have to use factory loaded ammunition so can't pick and choose wads, you can pick a size for your slug and make a simple hammer through sizing die so reduce slug diameter to suit wad petal thickness. It will remove the "taper" of the slug but should help fit if is is too tight.

Do the petals have internal ribs? If so then that is likely the issue. You may be able to make a tool to shear out the ribs (sharp edged tube like a reverse gasket punch) or remove the wads and cut the ribs off each petal, though that would be rather tedious except for a few rounds to test and then a few for self defense/hunting if it worked.


So, the short story:

• if the round will chamber I would not hesitate to try it ~ if accuracy is poor check recovered wads for petal damage
• try a lubricated push through test ~ I bet it goes easier
• if there are ribs see if you can remove them
• if petals are thick then try sizing down slugs or maybe a sanding drum or dowel wrapped with sand paper to thin wad petals (would be difficult to do evenly)

Hopefully someone with first hand experience will chime in to ease your mind on the fit issue.

Longbow

[Y-man]

Many thanks Longbow! I believe the idea of sizing down the slugs should work perfectly, and provide consistent performance.... Cheers.

[MT Chambers]

Lyman sends loads with the slug mold, it includes data for that slug using common plastic shotcups, the slugs are not sized, there may be a note about avoiding full chokes or accuracy not being as good with full chokes. Here is a sample load from Lyman that was included with the mold: 2 3/4" WW AA case, W-209 primer, Waa12 wad, 30grs. WSF powder, 1393 fps.

[Y-man]

MT Chambers, Unfortunately I'm not able to work with "loads" for now. Live and re-load in a highly restricted country, and can BARELY even get regular birdshot shells which I replace shot with slugs of similar or less weight.

Thanks for the info, though!

[longbow]

Y-man:

An adder to the sizing idea ~ if you size slightly smaller than the tightest wad (thickest petals) you encounter then you can use tracing paper or other thin paper to patch back up to perfect fit so then you only need one hammer sizer to size down the slugs and patch back up to suit to suit whatever factory wad you have in the loaded rounds. Use two wraps of paper for more or less conventional paper patch or use cross strips for a single layer. I have done both successfully.

Not as convenient as just loading a slug but adds versatility to accommodate different wad petal thicknesses if that is an issue.

By the way, all I use for hammer sizers is two pieces of round bar: one bored to size the slug/boolit and one as a very slightly undersize punch to drive the slug through. So a very basic die and punch set. I would use a rubber/plastic hammer or wood mallet so as not to deform the punch head. It will eventually mushroom over if you use a metal hammer.

These do not need to be heat treated to size lead. The die should be honed or lapped to be very smooth though.

You will want to over size one end so the whole slug JUST drops in and some die opening left to guide the punch so maybe twice as deep as the slug. Drop the slug in, drop the punch in on top then whack the punch to drive the slug through the sizing portion. You can have a clearance hole below for the slug to drop through or set the die on a piece of wood or metal with a larger hole in it so the slug drops onto a cushion below. you don't want to deform these babies after sizing.

You may want to use a bit of grease on the slug so it slides through the die easier though with the Lyman slug there is little bearing area anyway.

Let us know what you do and how it works for you.

Take care.

Longbow

[Y-man]

Hey Longbow...
I was not able to fabricate a Sizer [Maybe you send me a picture?] so I have done the next best thing: cast my Lyman slugs, and then file the skirt/ flare all round by .5mm. Then use a felt wad to raise the slug in the wad. It pushes through rifled barrel by dowel without too much force.

Looking forward to testing this soon.

Had a double tragedy in June with both Sister and Father gone [Natural - Illness: Sickle Cell Anaemia/ Prostrate issues - causes.] so no activity for some time now.

[Reloader270]

I do not trust shooting Lyman slugs in a full choke gun. Therefore I have developed a sizer die system to make them fit perfectly in a shot cup.

Left to Right:
1) Lee Factory Crimp Die (body only)
2) Lee Ram Prime – Ram
3) Lee Ram Prime Body (shell holder housing cut off) and Ram milled thinner to accommodate hollow base of slug.
4) Lyman 475gr Foster Slug in shot cup (Unsized)
5) Lyman 475gr Foster Slug in shot cup (Sized)

PREPARING THE SIZERS:
Take the crimper insert out of the Lee Factory Crimp Die 1). You can polish the inside of the die and make the opening at the bottom a bit tapered to accept the slug easier.

Now cut off the top of the Lee Ram Prime Body 3) where you normally insert the shell holder. Now you need to mill the inside of the Lee Ram Prime body 3) to be in the region of 0.663”. Then polish the inside of the die body. It should now not be larger than 0.666”. Make the bottom of the body of the Lee Ram Prime 3) also a little tapered as to allow it to take the slug easier.

Then mill down the top part of the Lee Ram Prime (Ram) 2) to be 0.420” thick. The length you need to mill down is +-0.912”.


SIZING YOUR SLUGS:
Use your single stage press. Turn the Lee Factory Crimp Die (body) )1) as a starter for your sizing of the slug. Insert the Lee Ram Prime Ram (the milled down one in 3) in the Ram of the Press. Lube the slug with any good lubricant. The use the milled down primer ram in 3) to push the slug up in the die 1). Once the slug is inside the body Lee Factory Crimp Die 1), lower the Ram of the Press and then you knock the slug down the die with the Lee Ram Prime Ram 2) using a mallet . If the slug sticks to the primer ram 3), you need to mill the ram down a bit more.

After sizing the slug inside the Factory Crimp Die (body) 1), you turn the sizer 3) into the press – turn it in until it locks on the top of the press. You repeat the process of lubricating the slug and then sizing it, but this time you press it right through the sizer die 3). It should now fit perfectly inside the shot cup.

When loading the slugs I glue the slug to the bottom of the cup – it improves accuracy.

[longbow]

Y-man:

I don't have a 12 ga. slug hammer sizer though I am thinking about making one. Basically all you need is some round bar of about 1" diameter bored to about 1 1/2 slug lengths at a little over the cast diameter then a reduction in diameter to the sized dimension you want to suit the wads. After the sizing ring the bore of the sizer can open up again so the slug drops free and doesn't have to be pounded through all the way. The punch to drive the slug through has to be a hair under the sizer diameter and preferable made of brass or something softer than steel.

I have made .30 cal and .44 cal sizers the same way because I am cheap and also because I couldn't easily get what I wanted commercially. They are not fancy but they work fine.

I will sketch something up for 12 ga. slug and e-mail it to you. Pretty simple to drill then finish with a boring bar. Obviously you will need someone with a lathe but other than the final bore size there is no super precision required and regular soft carbon steel is adequate though a length of car or truck axle annealed, bored then heat treated would be better. Heat treating you can do with a torch or in a BBQ.

Longbow

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

As a side note: that weight is the same +/- as the standard 1 1/8th ounce trap load. That's where I started with mine. Just cut the wad petals down to match the height.

[victorfox]

Hi there Y-man! PM me, we're in the same boat of "control". Sorry to hear about your family issues. My condolences. Take care.

[Y-man]

Well, I have re-activated the "Lyman 525 Protocol". I will be shooting a few in about 3 weeks.
Basically: I will be re-loading [Simply replacing shot from Birdshot [Target] shells with Lyman 525 slugs.]

My load-out:

Lyman 525 Slug.
1. 2 ¾ ” Shell
2. Powder
3. Over-Powder Gas Check
4. 2pcs Hard plastic wads - Thin [Plastic disks punched from old window blinds]
5. REAL felt wad - 19mm: the sort that is sold at Walmart for moving furniture smoothly.
6. 2pcs Hard plastic wads - Thin [Plastic disks punched from old window blinds]
7. Shot-cup [From the original wad] shaken inside a Talcum Powder bath...
8. 1pc Metal Washer – 15mm [Put inside Shot-cup under slug: enhances slug separation from wad, and enhances rigid support of wad to avoid cavity blow-in of wad.]
9. 3pcs [14-15mm] Hard plastic wad [Put inside Shot-cup under slug]
10. ONE Lyman 525 Slug – cavity filled with Hot Glue [I will also be trying regular candle wax.]
11. Roll-crimp.

Click on picture below to see components I'm working with.

[wmitty]

Y-man

I'd wondered about a washer being used as you describe beneath the slug. I am also trying to develop a load with this slug using the Federal 12-S3 wad and Blue Dot and I am watching your posts with great interest. I'm amazed at your ingenious ideas.

[vzerone]

Many years ago I use to use the Lyman 20 gauge slug in a rifled shotgun barrel. The instructions I got with the slug mod was to use WW AA hulls and Win wad. It didn't take me long to figure out that you can only use new hulls or once fired hulls. The problem is that the inside of a plastic shotshell hull get's burnt and rough. When this happens the wads stick to the rough shotshell hulls like glue and they get damaged. When I was getting real good groups I would find the fired wads on the ground with all the pedals intact. When my group got bad I would find wads with one, two, or more pedals missing. It got to be I was watching the wads on the ground more then the target. Eventually I bought new hulls or once fired ones. Lubing the wads doesn't help by the way. Try this test: Take a new shotshell apart and you will see you can pull the wad out with a pair of needle nosed pliers very easily. Next reload a hull that's been fired a number of times. Take it apart and see how much trouble you have pulling the wad out.

Other then that shoe Lyman slugs shoot really good and I was able to get some 1 inch groups with mine.

[Y-man]

I forgot to mention that the 1pc metal washer and 3pcs Hard Plastic disks INSIDE the shotcup [Numbers 8 & 9 above] are to raise the slug to a perfect position for roll-crimping, and to raise beyond the ribs in the wad. It now fits perfectly.

[jmort]

"It now fits perfectly."

That is great to hear. Getting the column just right is very important. As I mentioned in the other thread, when you can, get a .678" round ball mold. You will be surprised how well that works with your stock components and shot. Fits right into a wad like a glove.

[sthwestvictoria]

Another approach may be to cast the Lyman slugs out of Pure lead if there is a roof flashing or other supply in the nearest town. This would tend to give the smallest diameter of the various alloys.

[6pt-sika]

I've shot the Lyman 525 in two Parker 12 gauge side by sides . I cast from wheelweights and air cool . Use SR7625 and a Claybuster knockoff of the WAA12 wad . Also I generally hold shots in these smoothbores to 40 yards or less .

In the 2014 season I used my old circa 1891 Parker GH 12 gauge Damascus barreled gun choked approx. IC/M to kill a little buck at 26 lasered yards . I load the Lyman slug in the right barrel and buckshot in the left . At the boom of the gun the deer hit the ground as I broke his neck .



This season I shot it some in a circa 1913 Parker VH 12 gauge 30" that's choked pretty much full and full . It shot nice two shot groups at 25 and 50 yards . Now when I say two shot groups two from the right barrel would look very nice together and the two from the left barrel would look very nice together . I had this one set up to use on a last day deer hunt where we'd do some man drives , and with this one I had slugs in both barrels with some buckshot in the stock cuff . Sorry to say I never got the chance to shoot a deer with it the last day . FWIW I picked up the wads when I was checking pattern and POI for both barrels , the petals were intact and the wads actually could be used again . The only thing noticeable as far as the slugs being in those wads when shot were two ringed impressions . One where the top of the slug would have been in the wad and the other where the skirt would have been . I forgot to mention I put hot glue inside the base cup to keep the wad from going up inside the skirt . Anyway these things went thru the full and full barrels of this Parker and shot nicely at 25 yards and adequate at 50 yards . Sorry to say I didn't take any pics of the groups from the VH gun or the wads .

[6pt-sika]

FWIW , I borrowed the mold for the Lyman 525 from a friend and I've been debating whether to buy one or borrow his once a year .

I do however think I'll pony up the schekels for the 20 gauge version to use in my little circa 1928 Parker VHE and circa 1920 Fox Sterlingworth .

My little Parker 20 gauge VHE .



My little Fox Sterlingworth 20 gauge , sorry I don't have an individual pic the Sterlingworth 20 in question is second from the top .

[6pt-sika]

I didn't initially read your entire post before posting .

In the 12 gauge loads I've done with the Lyman 525 I use everything the same as I do with 1 1/8 ounce of birdshot or nine 0 Buckshot . And knock on wood so far it's done nicely for me . Now I might add my loads are not high pressure as I shoot them in Damascus or fluid steel barrels . What happens when you juice them up a skoosh I don't now . Most all of my loads are 9,000 or less pressure wise .