barrel bore accountability

[nekshot]

I have 2 rifle profile barrels in 410 full choke 26 inches long. Wanting to get my double rifle lighter I got a wild hair up my **** that these 2 barrels would shave a pound off the beast if I could use these barrels with 444 brass(NOOOO not full pressure loads so don't open that can of worms). These barrel chamber a 444 perfectly and about 2 inches ahead of the brass lip the barrel starts tightening up(.412 to the muzzle for .398). The closest drill bit I have is a 27/64 @.4219. Ok I will gain a wee bit diameter for drilling but this should work for cast slugs???? am I ok thinking this way. And for rifling if I get 1 turn in the 22 inches of barrel that is drilled it should work for slow lazy slugs??? Should it be slower? For the wondering minds this application is for black powder or very light smokeless loads. What say the expierenced ones? I would talk to JES but I don't have the funds to pay attention so his work is out of the question but I have a lathe and a drill bit and plenty of time to go around!

[nekshot]

my question really is can a lead slug squeeze down the amount i will have and not lead? .429-430 t0 .422

[longbow]

I'm a little lost. How are you shaving a pound off by using .444 brass?

Also, how are you planning to rifle these barrels?

If you drill you will need to ream after to have a smooth bore for rifling so again I am a little lost. If you are going to open up the bores then why not drill and ream to suit the 0.429" boolits properly. Alternately why not consider a .41 boolit?

I guess I am just lost except you are making a double rifle from .410 barrels.

Longbow

[nekshot]

couple years ago I made a 12 ga dbl into a rifle with 303 military barrels. Works awsome with correct pressure loads but whole gun weighs a ton and I get into pain lifting over 15 pounds. These 2 410 barrels are much lighter than the 303 barrels. If I can drill the 410 barrels out and make a 3 bit spud to pull thru and get rifling and yet get it all smoothed out, I have a winner. This gun is a 100 yard proposition any way I look at it. I followed some posts of others that attempted this and trufully none of them came thru with finished deal in their posts so maybe this is out of my leaque. I have time and am willing to try. The worst I will have is a 410 barrel with no choke!

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I think there is a good chance of wasting a lot of money by unwise economy here. Rifling a barrel is extremely difficult to do well, and anything you do to the bore requires a piloted drill or reamer. Even then it doesn't take much of an error to ruin a barrel. I also, though I haven't done the calculations, don't believe this operation would lighten the barrels as much as you think. In hindsight most people who make double rifles from shotguns use modern, investment-cast 20g. guns.

If I was in this situation, and committed to the 12ga, I would use one of the barrel liners available from Track of the Wolf. Several of the large calibres are available in 7/8in. diameter, which is close enough to the 12ga rim recess diameter. You would need the use of a lathe and a chamber reamer, but not as much time, special tooling or expertise as what you have suggested

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/637/1

http://www.dave-cushman.net/shot/shotshellloads.html

[longbow]

Actually rifling a barrel isn't really that hard. The old time backwoods gunsmiths made wooden rifling benches that worked just fine. Take a look for "Seabolt Wooden Rifling Bench". In fact why don't I save you some time:

http://toadhallrifleshop.com/rifling-worms-video/
http://toadhallrifleshop.com/wooden-rifler/

I have his book and video.

The are not difficult or expensive to make.

I made a somewhat different version to rifle my shotgun choke tube with deep slow twist rifling. I haven't finished the choke tube yet but did successfully rifle a test piece of 3/4" pipe.

it is slow going but results are good. You say you have lots of time and no much money then this is for you.

Longbow

[Ballistics in Scotland]

It can be done, but not with a three-point tool, and not in a barrel sized with a drill bit.

21/64 is a good size for the pre-rifling size of a .44 barrel which uses .429 bullets. But it needs to be achieved with a reamer, after drilling to something like 10.5mm., i.e. .4134in. Then most of the bore needs to be deepened to bullet diameter by the rifling process, with many passes per groove. The author of that website quotes three miles of very thin steel shaving per barrel.

I think everything in the bore ought to be done with piloted tools to keep the correct alignment, and from gunsmiths' suppliers those will be expensive. I believe I would use conventional engineer's chucking reamers in 10.5mm. and 21/64in. diameters, and use a small carbide drill in the lathe to drill them for pilots at the front and an extension rod at the rear. The extension rod, which would bear the full turning force, would need to be silver soldered. But the pilot could probably be epoxied in place.

[EDG]

If you know what you're doing the answer is always simple.

If you don't what you're doing you don't have much of a chance.

[nekshot]

thanks longbow, that site confirmed what I thought. I have the one barrel drilled to.423 and now we polish and work on the rifling. Amazing what you can do even when the naysayers say you can't!!

[HollowPoint]

"Amazing what you can do even when the naysayers say you can't!!"

Ain't that the truth? I've had instances where the naysayers and the self-appointed armchair experts were falling all over themselves waiting in line to rip me a new rectal passage.

Even after completing what they determined to be un-doable, they still stuck to their line of reason. If you're a chronic DIY'er or tinkerer, there's just no getting away from this kind of thing. It used to be a real source of frustration to me but now I realize that most of my successes were attributed to these naysayers. I just had to prove them wrong.

HollowPoint

[EDG]

Got photos yet?

[nekshot]

no photo from me yet. I need to weld an extension on the reamer bit and I decided to put this project aside for this winter when the outside work is over. I will post pictures when done.

[KCSO]

You can rifle a barrel with a home made cutter made from a fil and use an exsisting barrel as a rfling guide. I have done a few pistol barrels this way. You will need a bench long enough for the guide barrel the barrel to be rifled and the rifling rods. For a pistol barrel i used a 6 foot bench and fastened the thing down with oak blocks and lag screws. You cut one groove at a time and then turn the tool for the next groove. I think Ned Roberts had plans for this outfit in one of his books. You will want the barrel straight and reamed to an even diameter and this is where the old 410 barrels will let you down as most are NOT straight and wall thickness is all over the map on these things. You have to remember GIGO. I would rather start from scratch with say an old muzzleloader barrel or even an old Numerich barrel if you could find one cheap.