Ballisti-cast Mark X machine issues.

[nh7792]

2 months ago I purchased a Ballisti-cast Mark x and the Mark 6 lube-sizer, and 16 Accurate molds for the casting machine. Let me start with the Mark 6, even though it isn't automated, it is a great sizing machine. I used Star sizing dies from Magma, and a Mr. Bullet Feeder with a nose down plate, the combo works great and have had zero issues with those two items.
As for the Mark X manual casting machine, I have had issues from day 1. First the melting pot would keep blowing heating elements, and then the machine wasn't aligned right causing fins on all the bullets cast, got those issues resolved, and now I'm getting pinch marks on every other bullet from the mold opening 1 side before the other. NV Ballistics claims it's the molds, and I am awaiting an email form Tom at Accurate molds to come over and see it in operation, so he can possibly find the cause or at least be able to say it isn't his molds. I have had the machine for 2 months with maybe 200 USABLE bullets. Every other bullet gets the pinch mark.
Has anyone recently purchased one of the Mark X machines and had issues??

Image is of the pinch marks on the bullets.

[Labanaktis]

I had a Mark X. I had issues with a "V" shape pinch like the 3rd from the left. It never went away. It was NV molds to. It seemed like it was machine related. Good luck and I hope it works out for you.

also Pm'd you

Matt

[Ausglock]

I found that the "pinch is caused by too tight a slot in the carrier arm where the mounting key fits into. they have to be a loose wobble fit and only come together tight at the top position for pouring and at the front position for cooling before the sprue is cut.
Hardline mold did it.

[ssnow]

I'll preface this post by saying I'm hesitant to post anything at all on the subject, as the explanations can be difficult with the written word and easily misunderstood. Nothing said here is intended as a criticism of anyone, but rather a bona-fide attempt to help with your problem.

I'll take a WAG and say the problem is not the molds themselves, as Tom makes very good molds. The problem may be in the mounting hardware, or rather what you did to make the hardware work. But, lets see.

First, you mention that one side is opening before the other. If this is the case, that could indeed cause binding and the pinch mark.

I would remove the molds from the machine, and verify if one side is opening sooner or not. It's either happening or it's not, you have to know for sure.

If one side is indeed opening sooner, then we have to determine why. If we assume for now that the parts are machined correctly, then the cause has to be that the cams are not in alignment with each other or the mold carrier is bolted down at an angle to the cams.

That's all there is. For one side to be opening sooner, that side must be reaching the opening detent on the cam before the other. Either by means of misalignment of the cams, or the mold carrier being at an angle to the cams. (Again, assuming properly machined parts)

Now, back to the mold mounting hardware. You mention in your post that "the machine wasn't aligned right causing fins on all the bullets cast", but that you have resolved that issue.

It is not clear to me what machine misalignment would cause fins, unless you simply mean the molds were not closing tight enough.

If they were not closing properly, what did you do to resolve the issue? At that point in the game, the easiest apparent fix is to adjust the cams (or possibly only one cam) inboard so that the mold would close.

(If this is the case, then realize that the NVT hardware to mount the molds may be dimensionally different from what you used. In which case, the machine itself may not have been misaligned or maladjusted at all. Rather a dimensionally different part was used from a different manufacturer)

Now, if you did adjust the cam(s) in order to made the molds close properly, then a careful inspection of the cam's positioning is in order to ensure that they are adjusted properly. In short, verify that your fix to the first problem is not creating the new problem.

All of these items are adjustment and/or mismatched parts issues, and I suspect that is where you will find the problem.

I don't really expect machining errors, but anyone can make a mistake. If they exist, you should be able to find them.

I would verify that; the cams (particularly the opening detent) are cut the same and start in the same place; that the mounting position of the center shaft is the same side to side, that the mounting holes for the cams are centered around the center shaft and that the mounting holes in the mold carriers and center shaft are properly centered. I doubt you will find errors in these areas, but they are things that could cause the problem if a mistake was made in the machining process.

[nh7792]

The keys from Accurate and from Ballisti-cast fit snug in the carrier arm, but do have enough play to let the molds align correctly when closing. NV machine said to make sure that the keys were tightened down pretty tight to the carrier arm. When the sprue is cut and the mold is almost to the point on the cam that allows the halves to open and separate, you can see the side closest to you start to open but pinching the other side thousandths before the drop on the cam that opens both sides.
I tried to get it right at the spot I described to take the picture. (need 3 hands)

[AbluquerqueBullet,LLC]

If what i am looking at in the picture is flat dents and not blades that stick out.

It happens when the molds are not FIRMLY! together when the sprue is being cut. you need to bring the 2 rings that close the molds in closer. When the pin on the machine hits the sprue cutter the forces are transferred to the bolt and the mold block that its in driving it back up and to the right giving a slight sises effect flating out a spot on the boolits as the 2 molds shift. i can see a big gap in the molds on that last pic but i dont own a mark X i have 2 mark IIs.

Hope that helps

[nh7792]

That last image is after the sprue is cut, and right before the cam drops to open the mold halves. The gap isn't there when filling and when the sprue is cut.

[ssnow]

The picture shows that the carriers are properly aligned, which eliminates that as a possible cause. That leaves cam adjustment as the only remaining item that would cause one side to open before the other.

That said, if there is enough clearance in the mounting keys, then the cam does not have to be perfect. The keys should have enough clearance to move both up and down, and inboard/outboard. If there is not enough inboard/outboard clearance, then the cam position would become very critical in order to avoid binding.

It is hard to tell from the picture, but it appears that there is no clearance between the key and the mold in the inboard/outboard direction. How much clearance exists ?

[Labanaktis]

Edited my post.... Never mind .... I'm staying outta this one...

[6bg6ga]

If the molds are not firmly together adjust the 4 adjusting bolts on the left side of the machine in order to make the molds mate up. I have a poor mans ballisti-cast machine that only holds 2) mold sets. The problem usually stems from the mounting pieces that are attached to the molds. Any deviation in width can cause either a bind up condition or a non-closure condition. If you measure the overall width of the mold sets one can tell if a shim and or adjustment is needed. Its a simple fix. I run a lot of used bullet molds off ebay that are both either old ballisti-cast or magma in nature.

[ssnow]

The clearance is not difficult to measure. It can be as simple as holding a mold half in you hand, press the key inboard and measure the width of the mold and key.......now hold the key outboard as far as it will go with you thumb and forefinger and measure again. The difference between the two measurements is your amount of clearance. You could be off a little with this measurement if you are holding the key outboard at some angle, but it's close enough for what we are trying to determine.

[ssnow]

Opps, the was question deleted.......well, the answer may help someone else anyway Sorry about that.

[nh7792]

Attachment 141628Attachment 141629Here are a few pictures of the cam. As you can almost see, almost at the drop point it is shaved down a bit, it is at that point during the rotation that the molds begin to open while still having pressure from the sprue plate cutting rod thingy. (forgot what the parts called) It is at this point that the closest end of the mold starts to open while the back of the mold remains closed and causing the pinch marks.

[nh7792]

I want to thank you all for your input on this. I wasn't too surprised to learn others have had the exact same issues with the Mark X and pinched bullets, from what I have heard the older machines were built better than the new ones.

[nh7792]

Does anyone have an older machine? if so, do the cams have the same little slopes before the drop.
I've been playing with the machine for several hours trying to determine if the cams are the cause with the combined stress of the sprues being cut, or if it's something else. Everything seems to be where it should and do what it should be doing, and the shaved section of the cam right before the drop is the only thing I can see that could cause it.

[Ausglock]

how old is your machine?

Ours were made in June/July 2014 we have 2 of them.
No issues except for the crimp on cable end coming off a element connection. Added extra shims to the right side cam ring to fully close the mold halves.
Added Electric solenoid to the pour lever.
Currently working on an electric drive and linkage for the rotation lever.
Still have to press a button to pour and another to rotate.
Then comes the PLC for the whole operation with load sensing to prevent damage when a bullet hangsup in a cavity.

[nh7792]

Mine was made in April 2015. Do your cams have that little slope right before the drop that opens the molds to release the bullets?

[ssnow]

I have an earlier machine, and the cams do not have that lead in cut......so obviously there has been a design change there. Provided the cams are properly adjusted though, they should still open the same amount at the same time.

If you are correct that the pinch is happening because the sprue plate is still engaging the pin while the molds are beginning to open, then you may be able to adjust the pin to engage the sprue plate earlier in the cycle. When you are dealing with timing issues, a small adjustment can go a long way.

On my machine, the pin bracket is adjustable both in and out, and side to side. There is not a height adjustment, other than what play is available in the slots for the bolts. However, there would be no reason that I could not raise the whole bracket if I needed to do so.

[Ausglock]

Ours have the ramped down section.

[nh7792]

Well, it wasn't the machine. Keith at Ballisti-Cast sent out a brand new machine with 4 brand new 40cal molds. (I got to pick design and weight) I ran the machine with their molds for a while tonight and cast a few hundred .401-180gr-RNFP with zero issues, there were no pinch marks and the mold lines were almost invisible until the mold got hot. I put on 2 of the Accurate 9mm 125gr molds and ran the 2 9mm and 2 40 molds for about 30 minutes. The 40s came out just fine, a few wrinkles while heating them back up, and a few minor dings from them dropping right in to the catch tray, but no pinch marks at all, the 9mm from the accurate molds looked just the same as they have from day one, the exact same pinch mark on over half the bullets.
Hopefully Tom/Larry at Accurate will do the right thing and do a return/refund on the molds. They may be up to spec on his end, but they didn't work at all with the Ballisti-Cast machines. I also want to give 2 thumbs up for Ballisti-cast/NV-Ballistics, Keith went above and beyond to make sure to make sure their machine wasn't the cause of the problems.