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Thread: Hard Lube vs Soft Lube

  1. #1
    Boolit Man
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    Hard Lube vs Soft Lube

    This question is an offshoot from another different question I've asked.

    What are the benefits / detriments of the different lube types?

    I'm casting for mainly pistols (.44 mag, .38 special, .357 Mag) and low intensity rifle (30-30, 45-70). I've historically used 50/50 Javilina Alox lube.

    Would I be better suited going to a hard lube and the associated efforts (set lubrisizer with heater, etc)? Or does a soft lube suit just fine.

    I haven't had any noticable problems so far, but I'm just getting into the 30-30, so I havn't even cast an bullets for it yet.

    Thanks.

    JSC

  2. #2
    Boolit Man
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    I use the same lube mostly for hand guns but have used it for my 45-70 also with good results.

    TGM

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master

    Wayne Smith's Avatar
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    Hard lubes are for shipping, soft lubes are for shooting. Not exclusively, but generally. Hard lubes may be for shooting in the summer in the desert Southwest?
    Wayne the Shrink

    There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    I don't use "hard" lubes. I define those as ones that need a heater to apply. Pretty much all that I buy are hard lubes. It is marginal at best.

    For most of what I shoot, I use the standard 50-50 NRA lube. I consider that a medium hardness lube. Stiff, but no heater required. 50% beeswax and 50% Alox.

    Unfortunately, it does not work at all for Black Powder. I use SPG for that and have also started using it for low velocity smokeless loads. You can spread it on with your fingers it is so soft.

    I think correct lube hardness is directly related to the acceleration needed to move the lube out of its groove and onto the barrel. The higher the acceleration, the harder the lube must be. No mathematics on that, but I have tried.

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master



    cbrick's Avatar
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    I think this article by Glen Fryxell will answer the question of hard vs soft lubes and your type of shooting very effectively.

    Lubricating Cast Bullets

    Rick
    "The people never give up their freedom . . . Except under some delusion." Edmund Burke

    "Let us remember that if we suffer tamely a lawless attack on our liberty, we encourage it." Samuel Adams

    NRA Benefactor Life Member
    CRPA Life Member

  6. #6
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    44man's Avatar
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    Harry O, I shoot BPCR and there is not a single shooter at my club that will use SPG. I tried it when I first started and it left the last 10" of barrel full of hard, dry fouling. I tried to sell the rest with no luck so I just mixed it with other stuff.
    Every single home made lube will better SPG. Plus the stuff is priced 10 times what it is worth.
    Get some BP lube from Lar45 and be happy.
    As far as anything with alox, I only use it for low velocity stuff, works good but I am convinced that it burns in the bore and you are only left with the beeswax that is degraded from the burning alox. I get enough junk from powder to have to put up with alox ash.
    Lar makes a soft red lube that I believe has some alox in it but it outshoots 50-50 by quite a bit. I like the Carnauba Red for high velocity but it is a little hard. Felix lube will do it all from slow to thumping.
    If you are in love with 50-50, get it from Glenn and save a lot of money. Help support one of our own, he is a super guy!

  7. #7
    In Remebrance


    Bret4207's Avatar
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    SPG isn't nectar direct from the gods?!?! But, but, Mike Venturino says it's the best thing since non-corrosive priming and Zingers!!!!! How could this be? Wait a minute....you don't think "Duke" Venturino was giving his bud Steve's product a boost do you?


    44man- You think the alox "burns" in the barrel? Could you explain please?

  8. #8
    Boolit Man
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    I've got two tubes of the 50/50 left, after that I'll be buying from one of the supporters of the boolits website. I was looking at LAR's soft red lube, and that's probably what I'll go with (any current users care to comment?)

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 44man View Post
    Harry O, I shoot BPCR and there is not a single shooter at my club that will use SPG.........Get some BP lube from Lar45 and be happy.
    Thanks for the info. I don't shoot BPCR, but I do know that SPG was a great improvement over 50-50 when it comes to BP. 50-50 and BP give some nasty fouling. However, I have never liked the cost of SPG and would like to get something that works that costs less. I tried making my own Felix lube and ended up stinking up the house without getting anything that worked. The shaved Ivory just would not melt.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master

    mtgrs737's Avatar
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    I have been shooting Lar's BAC which is Bee's Wax, Alox, and Carnuba Wax. I like it better than the NRA 50/50 because it doesn't smoke, so maybe it isn't burning in the barrel. It also is easy to work with being a soft lube.

  11. #11
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    44man's Avatar
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    Bret, when I see that much smoke come out of the barrel, something is burning and it also stinks. What other explanation can I deduce?

  12. #12
    Boolit Master Adam10mm's Avatar
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    I have a little corny saying of mine: Lar's Red, enough said.
    "A man may not care for golf and still be human, but the man who does not like to see, hunt, photograph, or otherwise outwit birds or animals is hardly normal. He is supercivilized, and I for one do not know how to deal with him." - Aldo Leopold

    Live generously.

  13. #13
    In Remebrance


    Bret4207's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 44man View Post
    Bret, when I see that much smoke come out of the barrel, something is burning and it also stinks. What other explanation can I deduce?
    I wonder if we're talking burning or vaporized lube? I've seen the same thing and never thought about it burning. Actually, how could it "burn"? There isn't enough time in the barrel for it to build enough heat from friction to ignite and the confines of the barrel wouldn't allow enough oxygen there to support combustion. I think we're seeing the same thing, but the term isn't correct. Vaporization under pressure causing the gases to expand and the resulting cloud being those gases? Sounds better to me, but I'm open to another explanation.

  14. #14
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    Bret, I feel as if what is left in the bore after the boolit passes is being consumed by the burning powder. Not too good for the next round.
    I shoot really yucky boolits with Felix and Lar's lubes. The sides and even the nose will have all kinds of lube on them because I don't size, just remove excess lube.
    I don't get any smoke! With as much lube as I use, vaporization would create a HUGE cloud.
    Now alox, just in the grooves, will smoke. Shoot the stuff indoors and you can see it is really smoke, not droplets. If gas is seeping around my oversize boolits, alox sure is not sealing.
    Another clue is the muzzle. With my lubes the muzzle will be wet. Not so with alox, it will be dry and sooty. Alox lubes seem to be the only ones that do smoke too.
    I get leading with alox when I shoot my high velocities with heavy, oversize boolits. None of the other lubes, the LBT's, Lar's Carnauba Red or Felix will lead my guns and accuracy is better.

  15. #15
    In Remebrance


    Bret4207's Avatar
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    Huh. I get a real nice lube star with 50/50 alox. Same thing with Mule Snot and I leave it on like you do. I dunno. Could be you're right. I thought you meant the lube was burning around the boolit. The leftover lube being burned by the powder gases makes more sense when you put it that way. I still can't say for sure what happens and why. That part of what makes this interesting!

  16. #16
    Boolit Master


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    JSchance--Try them both and then you decide what you like best. In handguns I see it as a Ford/Chevy debate.

  17. #17
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    I think it is more of a difference in velocity, barrel length and pressure. It does work OK in my plinking loads but not in my long range or hunting loads. Lube needs tailored to the gun and load the same as powder. There are better lubes that work with everything so I don't fool with alox. I never figured out why it is so popular. It is not magic by any means. Olive oil would do better.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master

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    I think that the NRA formula works for 90% of most folks cast boolit shooting and that is why so many use it. I agree with 44man that their are other lubes that would work better than the NRA lube but few want to experiment enough to find out.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    I use SPG with no problem. The new Midwy flyer has SPG at a lower price than the Alox/Beeswax!

  20. #20
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    venturino was an original partner in spg he isn't now
    but he sure promotes it, think he pays for it?

    i only use lubes that i have to use a heater with, and am happy

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check