Hobby machinist - Is it worth starting?

[wonderwolf]

Some days I am thankful I have a shop....others I seriously consider just selling it all which would cut my projects down by 2/3 as I'm always adding projects and hardly getting any done but then I wouldn't learn as much as I'm learning now. I've taken classes on machining and welding, kind of teaching myself how to draw "line sheets" or whatever you want to call them to help me visualize how to make something. I got a few books on "technical drawling" and used to draw during down times at work.

Now a friend and I are buying a rifling machine off another friend who started building it and has lost interest in it. We talked about it on and off for 2 days ( the longest time in recorded history we've ever discussed a purchase) The machine is the size of a medium sized lathe. Do we NEED it? NO however we can use it to learn about the process of making barrels and what makes them tick. We ache to learn about this kind of stuff and to possess ability to produce something from almost nothing. We can buy barrel blanks of all sorts from everywhere all day long for cheap but knowing how to rifle is something else in our books. The machine has a lot of work yet to do on it so its not a plug and play deal.

[popper]

Got a mild 'sunburn' for machinist work in HS shop class. Worked the lathe to make a few mini cannons & smooth bore for 'pirate' pistols. Got to welding and running boring machine - this was NOT a body shop class. Most of this was 'sans drawings'. Yes, I've had mechanical draftng in school but this is where the problem arises. Easy to dim. a drawing with holes 1/1,000" accuracy 5 ' apart? Spec surface finish to a couple wavelengths? Then try to do it! Yes, you can turn a rod, thread it, etc. on a lathe but tooling and measuring devices are NOT cheap. So I just use my elec. hand drill, saw, etc - if I can't get there that way, just buy or pay for it. I hate woodworking, really like metal machining but other than a few tasks around the house it has little 'purpose/goal'. I think Buckshot is meaning to say - you really must want to be a machinist as a driving force. Otherwise you just have some fancy tools you use once in a while.

[jrap]

I've always wanted a metal lathe but that's the extent of my needs. I have a full woodshop though

[cs86]

I've enjoyed reading through the posts and seeing everyone's thoughts. Here are some questions I've picked up on that others are essentially asking in order to understand if you truly want to take on machining:

-In your own words what does machining as a hobby mean to you?
-Do you realize machining is a wealth of knowledge that takes a lot of time to learn?
-Do you have time or can you make time?
-Do you realize machining is very expensive? Don't just think of the expense of the main machine, but tooling is more then half of it.
-Do you realize it can be very dangerous, and safety is the utmost importance?
-Do you know what you want from it?
-Can you come up with a big enough list of projects that will keep that equipment from sitting in the corner collecting dust.
-Will you have a passion to keep learning and keep using the equipment?
-It would be smart to take some local classes to get a basic understanding and safety. They would be a wealth of knowledge and you wouldn't be out much if it wasn't your thing.
-Reading books, finding a mentor, or researching on the internet would be beneficial/essential for learning.
-As a hobby don't expect to make your money back. It is for pure enjoyment and satisfaction.

If a person can answer these and understand what they might embark then a person can get a little better idea whether it's worth diving into or not.

Thanks for all the input!

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Some days I am thankful I have a shop....others I seriously consider just selling it all which would cut my projects down by 2/3 as I'm always adding projects and hardly getting any done but then I wouldn't learn as much as I'm learning now. I've taken classes on machining and welding, kind of teaching myself how to draw "line sheets" or whatever you want to call them to help me visualize how to make something. I got a few books on "technical drawling" and used to draw during down times at work.

Now a friend and I are buying a rifling machine off another friend who started building it and has lost interest in it. We talked about it on and off for 2 days ( the longest time in recorded history we've ever discussed a purchase) The machine is the size of a medium sized lathe. Do we NEED it? NO however we can use it to learn about the process of making barrels and what makes them tick. We ache to learn about this kind of stuff and to possess ability to produce something from almost nothing. We can buy barrel blanks of all sorts from everywhere all day long for cheap but knowing how to rifle is something else in our books. The machine has a lot of work yet to do on it so its not a plug and play deal.

Strictly speaking nobody really needs anything except food, water, shelter, and clothing if the climate is cold or the neighbours are fussy. Most of us want reproductive opportunities (or whatever you call it) in at least some point in our lives, and it is just as well that most do. But most of us pay money, sometimes a lot of money, for things we enjoy. It is all a matter of how much we enjoy it compared with the alternatives, and whether we will go on enjoying it once the capital investment is made and the routine outlay is cheap.

Barrel rifling is a fascinating project, though I have never done it. It is also one in which the careful and thoughtful amateur can do just as well as anybody. HM Pope's work has more often been equaled than it was in his lifetime, but probably never excelled, and he did it on an ordinary lathe, smaller than most people on this thread seem happy with. About as small as mine, in fact. If you are talking rifle-length barrels, I believe obtaining a smooth, consistently dimensioned bore without work-hardened spots would be just as important as the rifling.

I spoke too soon on an earlier post. I said the drive gears in my mini-mill had never failed. Well, one did the other day. The longitudinal table developed a juddering end-float which, in combination with a heavy cut, broke the nylon gear which meshes with the one in micarta or some such on the motor itself. I think it is meant to fail before something more expensive and less accessible does, for changing it is simplicity itself. As soon as I had done it, I found two Allan setscrews in the endplate of the table, entirely unmentioned in the manual.

I found the distributors very helpful, downloaded a manual and parts list when I couldn't find mine, and bought a replacement on the phone for £9.03. I had a second line of attack if it ever becomes unavailable, though, and the technique for finding a substitute gear is worth describing. I claim no expertise, as I found it all on Wikipedia.

The spur gear has 30 teeth, and diameters of 41.4mm. root to root and 48mm. crest to crest. Gears are specified by the module number, which derives from the pitch diameter, a figure difficult to measure but bigger than root and smaller than crest. So I took it as mid-way between those two, or 44.7mm. They you divide it by the number of teeth, giving module 1.49.

Since there is unlikely to be any such thing, I searched eBay for module 1.5, and got the following in glass-filled nylon. The published diameters and the bore are right. It would have to be turned thinner, but I could easily make a keyway broach good enough to cut a keyway in nylon.

That machine has its limits. But the day I got it set up, I made a solder-on base for a base to fit a pre-war Zeiss 7/8in. scope with an obsolete Leupold external-adjustment mount, to a sporting Martini carbine in .40-65 (or some vanished European round indistinguishable from it), which I acquired as near-scrap with a perfect bore. Can you put a price on something like that? I bet a machinist you employ to do it could put a hefty one. That machine earned a considerable chunk of its keep in one very long evening.

[Doc1]

I think a lot of acquiring a hobbyist's machine shop comes down to the old time-versus-money equation and being settled down in the right location. I was in my thirties before I became a long-term property owner who had suitable workshop space for these things. Think about it, gents; how and where does a twenty-something living in a series of apartments or having a shared house with room mates keep a room full of machines? It can be done to greater or lesser degrees, but having workshop space should be the priority before you buy your first machine.

Then it's time to get a lathe. Throughout most of my life, I've been "progressively frugal." That's a term I just made up which is synonymous with "penny-pinching cheapskate." I remember pouring through the Harbor Freight and Grizzly catalgues years ago, longing for some of their Asian machines to get started. The aforementioned lack of work space and a sometimes chronic shortage of cash always seemed to put my first lathe just out of reach. Then there were always these trivial, unimportant expenses that seemed to arise just when I was ready to get my first machine. You all know what I mean: birth of a child, unexpected surgery, food, electric bills, transmission for the wife's car... etc. Men, let me give you a hint, here. Saying, "Honey, pioneer women were made of sterner stuff! Why, they wouldn't think twice about walking fifteen miles to work each day," is probably not the best way to save up lathe money and maintain domestic tranquillity. Just sayin'...

Eventually I found my first machine in a little shoppers paper ad. It was a really nice 6" Craftsman/Atlas lathe for the unbelievable price of a hundred bucks. Since then I've found several new-to-me machines in the shoppers papers and on the net. I now have a 10"x36" Atlas lathe, a 8"x12 Chinese mini lathe, an old Rockwell drill press and a couple of large Chinese drill presses. All of them have been purchased used and cheap and some needed attention/restoration on my part, but I got them all working and they saved me a ton of money over buying new.

A rich man could open the checkbook, have a shop built and buy whatever he wanted. My path has been much slower and frugal, but I have acquired most of the machines I wanted and rebuilding/restoring them taught me more about the machines than I ever would've learned buying new.

Best regards
Doc

[oldred]

Doc you bring up a very good point about having an established location for the long term, moving heavy bulky shop machinery is no easy (nor inexpensive) task. How many times have we seen ads and actual machinery sitting outside rusting under a tarp or plastic covering with a for sale sign, a long term place to put this stuff is the first order of the day!


OTOH, if it's practical to do it now then don't wait too long, my ONLY regret with buying my machinery and getting into this hobby was putting it off until I was too danged old! I had only dabbled a little with a lathe, probably only 8 or 10 hours and that without any instruction, prior to buying my first lathe so it was an unknown for me. At the spry young age of 62 I acquired my first real new lathe and actually had to read the manual to find out how to turn the dang thing on, I wasn't all that green around machinery but I was not at all familiar with that one. This was bought as a work tool to repair tractor parts, machine shops around here are not exactly "farmer friendly" and can not afford to work at rates most of us small farmers could afford, not a slap at them they are just trying to make a living the same as me but a fact all the same. Thus I bought my lathe as simply a tool to repair tractors and equipment at an affordable cost with little else in mind, after several hours, many discussions with a machinist friend of mine and a few broken tools later I not only discovered this was indeed going to be what I had hoped it would it also was a LOT of fun! I got seriously hooked after turning out the first few pieces and took a lot of pride in what I had made with my own machinery and my own two hands, then the hobby part of it set in on me! Starting out making a few parts for an old shotgun got me to thinking, if I could make these parts then if I made all the parts they should assemble into a whole gun right? Well it wasn't that simple but it did work and has now become a full time hobby for me, what was meant to be a working tool turned out to be the most interesting and productive endeavor of my entire life. My point is if you think you want to do this then you probably really do and anyone interested owes it to themselves to find out, it may take a while to get good at it but half the fun is getting there so it starts with day one! It also takes time to acquire machinery and tooling and this is not just cost concerns but learning what you need for what your interests are, you could easily spend many thousands of dollars on tools you would never have a use for and still need tools you don't have if you just buy what you THINK you might need all at once at the start. Start out slow with just the very basics and only buy what you need as you need it, you will save a lot of money and won't waste space storing un-needed items that way.


The bottom line is this is an extremely rewarding hobby that unlike most hobbies will yield something useful and something that can last a lifetime but it's something that needs to develop over time as you learn and the sooner you get started the better!

[GT1]

For the casual hobbyist, one of the Asian combo Lathe, milling machine, drill press serves well. I found mine this way, and have less than $700 invested, which includes some additional tooling I bought.

This is what I would look for. These are large enough to do what we want, accurate enough if you do your part, and take up little room(most can find room for these small combo machines in their reloading area).

[bangerjim]

And another ancient thread RISES FROM THE GRAVE!!!!!!!

HA.....ha!

[redneck1]

I will never figure why people get snide when an old thread gets dug up .
I'd think a better reaction would be the opposite one , people reading threw old threads and learning is a good thing .

[GT1]

We could just start new ones on old topics that have been covered before and remove the search feature?

[oldred]

I will never figure why people get snide when an old thread gets dug up .
I'd think a better reaction would be the opposite one , people reading threw old threads and learning is a good thing .

That one's easy, it often leads to someone unknowingly taking the time to try and offer advice to someone who has long since solved their problem and occasionally even reply to someone who hasn't been logged on for years. There's nothing at all wrong with digging up and old thread if someone has something to add but when doing that they need to acknowledge they know the thread is old so others can reply accordingly if they want to reply. Before someone starts in on me about the dates being clearly shown I know that but few just automatically go back and check the OP date before replying to what very well might look like a new thread, it's very easy to get caught up in an old thread and spend wasted time and effort on what is often now an irrelevant answer to a question.

See an old thread and want to reply? Like I said nothing wrong with that just give a heads up so that others will be sure to know before wasting time on what is all too often a useless reply to someone who may not even be a member anymore. We have all seen it, someone asks a question about a problem they might have, for example, and 5 years or so later someone else unknowingly tries to help by picking up and answering as if the OP was just yesterday because someone dug up and old post.

[bangerjim]

Teeee.....heeee......heeeee.

I like poking a wasp’s nest (from afar) to see what happens!!!!!!! HA.....ha!

[oldred]

Teeee.....heeee......heeeee.

I like poking a wasp’s nest (from afar) to see what happens!!!!!!! HA.....ha!

Especially when you have a darn good point!

[woodbutcher]

Might be old and risen from the dead,but sure is interesting and to the point.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[oldred]

Yep, there's still lots of good info that can be added to this but now at least anyone who posts will know the subject is a bit dated and can reply accordingly.

[Wolfer]

Even though the thread may be old I suspect there are people who would like to ask this or a similar question. Being a hobby machinest wannabe I enjoy threads like this.

[GT1]

It is interesting to me. It came up in a search, silly me for not reading the date(I don't care) but almost any kid that liked shop class in school always held a fascination in the lathe and mill, at least I did. I have heard the saying many times, if you have a lathe and mill, you can pretty much replicate another lathe or mill with them.
The mini mill/drill/lathe combo looks like a great way to explore basic machining without going whole hog machine shop, or buying those not very good almost toy grade contraptions.

[oldred]

It is interesting to me. It came up in a search, silly me for not reading the date(I don't care) but almost any kid that liked shop class in school always held a fascination in the lathe and mill, at least I did. I have heard the saying many times, if you have a lathe and mill, you can pretty much replicate another lathe or mill with them.
The mini mill/drill/lathe combo looks like a great way to explore basic machining without going whole hog machine shop, or buying those not very good almost toy grade contraptions.

Starting a new topic is most times much better than digging up an ancient 5 or 6 page topic because very few folks are going to go back and read 6 pages on most subjects that are old topics, heck very few folks will even bother go back and read that much on a new topic they have just come across!. A new topic still has current followers (or an old one did back at the time) who are keeping it going but an ancient thread may not even be remembered by some who posted in it! So yeah you can post a reply to an old one like that but 99 times out of a hundred it does not renew the old discussion and it simply fades back into cyber-limbo in a day or so thus few folks even see any added info so why bother, unlike a new topic that is being read from the start. Besides no one told you or anyone else NOT to post to an old thread we simply asked that you acknowledge that it's old so others will notice before wasting time posting what may very well be an irrelevant reply, this DOES happen and happens quite often when old threads reappear.

And yes sometimes a reply does sound "silly" when someone unknowingly replies to a 5 or 6 year old question as if it had been asked that day, it happens a lot when old threads are dug up.

I think the funniest one I have see happened on a machine shop forum some time back (coincidence with that considering this thread topic!) when a newbie dug up an old thread and another member posted a rather detailed answer to the OP's question not even realizing that HE WAS the guy who asked the question, LOL! He had long since solved his problem and was by now very familiar with it but because someone dug up an ancient thread he spent time telling himself how to fix something!

So go ahead and post to old threads if you like, no is telling you not to nor has anyone told you not to, but very likely few folks will see your reply since the thread will in all likelihood get buried immediately by new postings of other subjects, unlike starting a new topic.

[MrWolf]

Any thread that has a recent posting to it shows up as unread for me. If I like the topic I will go and read the prior posts. Good luck.