Hobby machinist - Is it worth starting?

[Buckshot]

"Hobby machinist - Is it worth starting?"

.............Yes it is, if that's what you REALLY want to do. That is, if you REALLY know that's what you want to do, and would enjoy it. If you're not sure, or if you have an affliction of sitting in front of the boob toob, then don't bother. You'll regret the money you spent finding out, and you'll never get it back. A pittance of what you spent is what you'll get back.

I'd suggest that if you're asking then you probably do not have the burn. There are people who were machinist's, or worked in a machine shop simply as a means to get a paycheck. It was a job and nothing else. Of course there was the odd few who possibly used their knowledge at home as a hobby making what they wanted to make, for their own enjoyment.

If you think you'd make the occasional size die, or would be able to make the odd "do-dad" for a gun or accessory, or a part for the washing machine, then forget it. Save your money and pay someone else who already has the equipment to make it. I don't want to be negative about it because for myself I'd rather be out in the shop making something then doing almost anything else. The only time you'd find me in the house during the day is if I was on my deathbed. I get all fidgety if I'm away from my stuff for too long.

Quite often I've spent more money making something then I'd have spent buying it someplace! Must be genetic because my 2 younger brothers are about the same. Not as bad as me, but similar. I constantly marvel at the people I see at Lowes or Home Depot looking at some blow molded 4'x4' outdoor closet to store their shovel and hoe, that costs $400. Or a 8' x 12' shed made out of 1x2's and plywood, 2 squares of shingles and it's priced at $2600! Doesn't matter what it is. I'd rather be making or building something then anything else I can think of.

The thing is, without the 'Burn' (for lack of a better term) you may end up resenting every penny you have to spend for a piece of tooling. Heck, I had spent over $3000 in tooling for my vertical knee mill before I'd ever even bought the mill. I simply KNEW that I was eventually going to get a milling machine, and I eventually did.

I'm so bad I own tools I don't even know I have.



Swage dies, and core moulds for the swage dies .............



Bullet moulds, this one for a 12 ga shotgun slug



Rear sight for a an AMT semi auto 30 Mi carbine pistol, or a action nut to remove Krag actions



New bolt knob for an old Winchester 22RF semi auto rifle, die holder to use in the lathe's tailstock



Bore out a wallered out water pump pully from an old Waukesha diesel, make a new sleeve, for it and press it in, then bore to fit the shaft. Make a dealie bob to drill HP's in loaded 45 ACP's.

You really need to figure out if buying a lathe and then spending the time and money in tooling it up for what you're wanting to do is what you REALLY want to do. If you enjoy making things then it might work out. Just don't show your wife what you've just spent 10 hours slaving over as it can be deflating. She'll probably glance at it and say, "That's nice, did you carry out the trash like I asked you to?"

............Buckshot

[smokeywolf]

Really great post Buckshot, and sage advice. Always look forward to your posts.

[bob208]

I did not say all the import lathes are junk. I said the import mini lathes are junk. I used the 9" south bend as example of size most importantly the smallest that would be use full. I have run a few of the import lathes the large ones they both were good machines. I even bought a new enco vertical mill new it is a great mill way better then a Bridgeport.

things I have made
brass cases for a smith carbine
rifling machine and a deep hole drilling machine
a fixture to put screw in studs in heads a fixture to angle mill heads
repaired dies for a local company
put barrels on a few rifles cut a lot of sight notches
modified corvare cranks so they could be used in aircraft.

[JSnover]

If you have the time to learn and the money to spend, sure. It is some serious fun and very satisfying.
I'd start with a smaller machine, find out if you're willing and able to really get into it. Get a pile of scrap together to practice. Hook up with somebody who knows the ropes. Good luck.

[oldred]

Fellas I agree with your views on costs but rather than scare someone off with the expense we must remember this is for hobby use and everything is not necessary to start because many corners can be cut if the person is willing to spend the extra time, sure if you just go to someplace like MSC or Enco for your tooling you better have a healthy checkbook! I went for several years with just very basic tooling most of which I got from Ebay for pennies on the dollar buying only what I just HAD to have and only as I determined it's need vs cost, end mills and other cutters that are a necessity were something I was constantly on the lookout for and I "won" very few auctions but when I did I got a real bargain! I am talking about name brand tooling only, Niagara, OSG, Accupro, etc because I leaned really quick that while some Chinese machines were ok the end mills, drill bits and other cutters were a COMPLETE WASTE OF MONEY and are more aggravation and frustration than they are worth even if they were free!

Those two rifles were built using just the lathe and basic tooling, HSS and Carbide lathe bits, a few end mills and drills plus a couple of other cutters I bought along the way such as some keyway cutters plus a few homemade tools, the most expensive accessory I bought was a new 6" Phase II rotary table for $259 (I later saw one on Craigslist for $75). I was not operating on a shoestring here and I could have spent a lot more at first than I did but time was of little concern and I enjoy doing what I can with what I have while waiting for the right "deal" to come along for some of the things I do want but can't justify the new prices for. I built that milling attachment for the lathe intending to use it for maybe a few weeks until I could find a Bridgeport or decent clone of same at a good price, I wound up using the attachment for the better part of two years but except for the extra time involved with setup and the fact it tied up my lathe while it was in use I doubt it made a lot of difference in the finished part vs using the mill if had I spent the money on one to start with. The whole point is that if buying the lathe new with the accessories that come with it then the very basic tooling to start making chips with is not going to be a terribly expensive out-lay, outside of a few lathe bits I think the biggest item I had to buy right off was a drill chuck for the tailstock. Sure I now have quite a bit of money tied up in my shop, just as I have even more than that tied up in my boat, but that's what it's for and I spend a heck of a lot more time in the shop than in the boat! Unlike the boat the shop expenses were spread out over time and it was not at all like I had write a single check for the whole mess, just start out with the lathe and add what's needed as it can be afforded (and keep a close check on Craigslist and Ebay!).

Just a note about buying tooling from Ebay/Craigslist, if you watch and wait you can get some killer deals BUT don't buy no-name cutters from China/India because they are worse than worthless and never buy used cutters that are not easily sharpened, lathe bits being an exception. End mills and other cutters are usually just someones junk they are trying to unload and will be worthless to someone without a very expensive tool and cutter grinder.

[cwheel]

I'm going to side with Buckshot here, you sure need the burn. This is something not to be done half heartedly unless you have money to burn. This is a expensive hobby if you enter into it at a hobby. Some of us older folks do have the money and time retired though and would encourage someone that is interested in machining, I still enjoy it after being paid to do it for 40 years and still enjoy making my own projects well into my retirement. I guess I cheated by accumulating machine tools along the way in the trade as well as a full set of machinist hand tools. I say the first thing to consider is taking a course in basic machine work at a community college. Not only would it help you get your feet wet, it would teach basic safety that you could take home with you. So many new hobby machinists get hurt without the safety taught in these classes, loose a eye, finger, hand or worse. Even after some training you need to pay attention and keep your wits about you accidents still happen. These classes would get you through your first couple of projects and teach machine operation basics as well. What you could take home from this is safety, basic machine operation, all the while keeping a eye on what machines and tooling are necessary to do what you are interested in. In these times, you are somewhat lucky starting this as a hobby. Many of us older machinists are passing on, while I have over $30,000 invested in hand tools, my wife will get less than 10% of this for my hand tools when I pass, because the demand for them in these times is low. Most tool buyers can't tell the difference between Starrett, Brown and Sharp tools from some import junk on the same table. There is another thread running here now on Grizzly lathes, now is a good time for these as well. The fine quality American lathes are by far the best, finding one that's usable, that you have the power for at home, is tough, and when you do, it will cost twice what a quality import will. This is a expensive hobby, and you will find you never stop buying tooling or replacement tools, just part of it. This hobby might end up being cheaper than buying a airplane, but cost will end up close depending on how deep you go into the rabbit hole. I've enjoyed doing this for a lifetime, paid machinist at 18 years old. If you don't have this " burn " don't do it, find something else that you do have the burn for.
Chris

[plainsman456]

I have been tinkering with cars and guns for as long as i remember.

I have made parts with a drill and files.
A few years ago i started a fund to get me a lathe and every time i made headway something would come uo and the funds were used for whatever.
last year i came on a deal for a small Atlas 10" lathe and have had a ball using it.
After watching some videos of folks using a quick change bit holder,i started asking questions about them.
I had a PM from a fellow up in the northeast who happened to have a set of 14 holders.
I showed the wife and she said what was i waiting on,because a starter set of 4 was about half of what was asked for this set.

As for the cost involved one can put in what you can when you can,i did a lot of cutting with that rocker post bit holder.
I don't pretend to know it all but it sure has been a hoot learning how to make something you need and can't find.

I look at this like i look at casting reloading,it's a relaxing time for me,i don't get in a hurry and what i end up with is like medicine for the soul.
Helps take everyday pressure off.
I learned on another 10" lathe and when i got this one i had to learn the ways of it but i still want to get a 13-14",well just because.

[oldred]

I look at this like i look at casting reloading,it's a relaxing time for me,i don't get in a hurry and what i end up with is like medicine for the soul.
Helps take everyday pressure off.

Just can't say it any better than that!

I would like to point out that this too is an example of what can be done without spending a fortune on it, buy the basic lathe and it might be surprising what a person can accomplish with just a few dollars worth of tooling and a bit of imagination! While those thousands of dollars worth of add-ons are nice and an absolute necessity in a job shop it's a whole different story in the hobby environment. Heck even those expensive measuring tools can be left to later, Harbor Freight type calipers and mics are not what anyone could realistically call good quality but they will work until those Starretts or B&S come along. Just basic measuring tools, a handful of HSS lathe bits that can sharpened to fit the need and a lathe is all a person needs to accomplish a lot.

[454PB]

The original poster wanted to make push through dies, nose punches, and maybe a gas check maker. Some seem to think you need high quality, expensive equipment in order to find out if this is your thing (or burn a Buckshot says). I think not......Lee moulds are an example of an inexpensive foray into the world of casting before you buy $200 custom moulds and a Star sizer.

I say get your foot in the door and try it with entry level equipment....then if it isn't your thing, or you go hog wild and want brand new CNC gear, sell the cheap stuff on Craig's List. I promise you won't have any trouble finding a buyer

[Buckshot]

..............Sometimes you 'Luck Out'. I both "Lucked Out", and was also in a position to spend considerable time on E-Bay (I worked a 12 hour shift at night, all by myself and we had a T-1 internet connection ). A friend of mine offered me a spare Logan 11x36" lathe. He had another 11" Logan he used, but an older model. Mine was actually made by Powermatic after they'd bought the Logan Lathe Co in the late 60's IIRC. In any event my lathe was made in 1981. For American iron that's recent history.

It was variable speed, 40 to 2000 rpm, backgeared, QC box and on it's factory stand. It has an LOO spindle nose, 2 hp Leeson 220 3 ~ motor. Along with the lathe I got a lever operated 5C collet closer and spindle nose adaptor, a 6 jaw Adjust -Tru Buck chuck, 2 jaw Buck adjust-Tru chuck, and 2 faceplates. One was a regular faceplate and the other has 'T' slots. A couple dog drivers, some live and dead centers and a drill chuck on a Morse taper for the tailstock. Plus it had a Stelling replacement crossfeed direct reading dial. All for the sum of $1500 and he helped me load it on HIS trailer, and cart it to my house.



I rapidly learned how E-Bay operated, and began a systematic program for acquiring stuff. Some folks view it as if they were in some sort of competition to 'WIN' the auction. Wrong! I can no longer spend that amount of time on E-Bay, and honestly haven't visited the site in I don't know how long. In my situation now, I don't know of anything I need badly enough to spend the time looking for it there. I'm sure we all have stories of lucking out to such a degree it felt like theft I still think about a few with warm gratitude, HA!

I will admit to one and all that I had (it's under control now) this extreme mental sickness for tools that were shiny and sharp. Like endmills, and I didn't HAVE a milling machine! I knew I'd get one, didn't know WHEN or HOW, but I'd get one. So I was constantly mesmerized by auctions for endmills and drill bits, especially drill bits with parabolic flutes. Ah well, enough of that.

...............Buckshot

[oldred]

The trick to Ebay is to buy tooling only through auction and don't get fixated on any one item with a determination to get it! By far most of the end mills, for instance since that's what I bought the most of, I lost in the last seconds but occasionally I would get lucky and get it for a song. NEVER bid until the last few seconds because bidding early only serves to drive up the price since you can't get it until the auction ends anyway why bid early? It's called "snipping" and believe it or not Ebay even encourages this practice, make up your mind FIRMLY what is to be your highest bid and don't go over that -no matter how badly you wanted that brand new TiN coated Niagara end mill there will be another before long! A couple of more tips is to look for auctions ending on holidays and when it's late at night across most of the country, the best deals happen during those times. I suppose I may be increasing my competition but hey it works, try it!

An example of one of the best deals I got, TWO 9/16" coated extra long Accupro carbide 4F end mills that were listed for $158 EA at MSC, I got both of them for less than $20 including shipping! Of course not many deals even close to that come along but still I have managed a wide selection on mills and a really good stock for a fraction of what they would have cost otherwise.

[Jeff Michel]

Do let the tooling cost discourage you. An appliance to accurately measure, micrometer or vernier caliper is fine. A handful of HSS lathe bits, 6 inch flexible rule, and a 6" grinder, some raw material and you would be amazed what kinds of tooling and accessories you will be able make with the most basic of tooling. Sure carbide is wonderful stuff and many of the things that are sold are masterpieces of convenience to assist the machinist. But I tend to look at some tooling like I do fishing lures. Get the basic stuff, learn HOW to use it then add slowly to your tooling. Thinking creatively is where the fun comes in, e.g. setting up a job to machine, designing a jig or fixture or making a tool instead of ordering through MSC or Enco. Find a copy of The Workshop Manual (Tee Publishing) by George Thomas will give you plenty of incentive to build and use a huge amount of accessories for your lathe.

[cs86]

I haven't been able to get on in the last few days. I'm grateful and amazed at the number of responses to the thread. Thanks for all your thoughts and opinions. I hope anyone out there interested in this type of endeavor can read through this and get a an idea of what they might be getting into if they have a desire of getting into the machining world.

Machinery handbook

I think I still have this in my little library of books from when I was in school. We had an older engineer as a professor and he swore by the book. I remembered we used it a little here and there, but it always seemed like greek to me.

[W.R.Buchanan]

[QUOTE=cs86;3265161]Thinking about it. Not sure it will work with my full time job and don't really want to spend the money, but could see how it would be well worth it. QUOTE]

I hate to throw a bucket of water onto this fun fest, but if you are not able to go to a class and learn something about the discipline, it is pointless to invest money in buying tools you won't know how to use, with the hopes that Osmosis will impart the knowledge you need to justify the purchase.

None of this stuff is cheap.

My first machine was a Sherline Lathe. I bought it thinking I would be able to make all sorts of little parts. I didn't have any small parts to make, but I wanted the machine. I got all the tooling as well but didn't really have a clue how to use any of it. It was very frustrating simply because since I didn't know how to use the machine I couldn't get it to do anything right.

After 30+ years in business as a machinist and shop owner I could make it perform now. But back then It was a complete waste of time and money. The machine was basically useless for anything that I wanted to do, but the problem was that I didn't know that before I bought it. Luckily I found some tuna to buy it off me for what I had into it so it wasn't a complete loss. What I learned from the incident was to learn about what you need before you buy it.

I had a similar experience a few years later but failed to apply my previous experience to the new scenario. I bought an Airplane to learn how to fly. This cost me a lot of money with no return at all. I would have been much better off renting planes to learn in and that way you are tearing up someone else's machinery.

This is also the best way to learn machining,,, by using someone else's machinery!

Just buying a machine is not going to get you anything but a virtually useless machine.

Go to a class and learn about what you are trying to do first. Then you can make an intelligent decision whether or not you want to invest in your own machines and tooling. I also recommend having projects lined up well in advance so that you actually have a reason to buy the machinery other than just owning machinery.

MY.02

Randy

[oldred]

Been there also! I too bought an airplane with nothing more than a couple of hours as a newly licensed pilot on my brand new private ticket and quickly learned just how much of a money incinerator something like that can be, as the old story goes the two happiest days of my life was the day I bought that thing and the day I sold it! My machine tool experience has been just the opposite however, I started out with a determination to learn and even more important a need for the thing. After a while I went from making simple pins, etc for farm equipment to more complex gadgets and while I broke/ruined my fair share of tooling in the process of learning what things such as backlash and climb milling meant I did learn and I wouldn't trade the experience for anything else I have ever done. Home machining has got to be the most rewarding hobby I can think of and if someone is interested in doing it then IMO they should jump in and get started BUT be aware of the costs and be realistic, just like airplanes it's a fun and rewarding hobby/sport but can be fairly expensive so be truthful with yourself as to whether or not it is affordable.

[plainsman456]

Now days with youtube there are many videos that will show you how to do most any job.

When working in the oilfield and taking tools to the machine shop to get fixed,i did a lot of watching and asked a lot of questions.

When i got this little 10 in.i could already turn out side threads but have never tried to turn inside threads.

Well i did teach myself how to do it .I did a bad job on the first test piece and broke one of the threading tools.
But i will say that with everything i have tried to do with the lathe i have learned something new.

It does get addictive.

[cs86]

My first machine was a Sherline Lathe. I bought it thinking I would be able to make all sorts of little parts. I didn't have any small parts to make, but I wanted the machine. I got all the tooling as well but didn't really have a clue how to use any of it. It was very frustrating simply because since I didn't know how to use the machine I couldn't get it to do anything right.

Sounds like you had the "burn" as Buckshot stated to keep learning and pursuing to finally do what you wanted to do with the machine.

I've bought some of the books you guys have recommended, and have been watching some youtube videos. If the books entice me to keep learning I might look into investing more. Maybe see if I can take some classes when they come up next fall. If my drive depletes I'll only have books I've started with. I plan on reading through them to start getting a basic understanding, with hopes that I'll come across different tooling that will plant a seed of learning and growing to understand how different tooling works. If I have no clue what the tooling does there is probably no need to buy it until I find a need for it.

I also recommend having projects lined up well in advance so that you actually have a reason to buy the machinery other than just owning machinery.

I already have a list started and hope to add more and more. I figured knowing what I wanted out of the machine first would better determine if it was worth it. I try and justify what I'm going to buy before buying it. There are very few things that I have regretted buying. One thing was a set of golf clubs. I just don't make it out enough to justify the buy. For some reason I keep them and think; I've put money into them, I do use them a few times a summer, and maybe someday I'll get more interested.

You guys have given me more ideas to brainstorm with and that was the reason for this thread. Right now I don't know how all the tooling works and what can be done with the machine so I needed some more ideas to spark my imagination. If I can get my imagination going with what the machine can do It'll be more justified why I want or need it. Right now it's using it as a hobbyist, but maybe someday I can make it profitable.

[cwheel]

I think like buckshot stated, having the burn to do it is the biggest thing. Think taking a class at a community college will go along way to keep you safe and start off in the right direction. The first machine tool I focused on for home was a lathe. There is another thread running on the Grizzly G0776 lathe for gunsmithing ( 13 X 40 ) and it would be a fine choice to start out with, you shouldn't outgrow it. American mills like a Bridgeport, are still common enough to find in good condition at a good price used, lathes, not so much. Hand tools and tooling can be found cheap at pawn shops as us old guys pass and the family sells off our stuff. Just remember you don't need to do it all at once or buy something like a smaller lathe that won't thread, or that is to small and needs replacing at some point. Only buy stuff good enough to only have to buy once. Good luck and have fun,
Chris

[country gent]

Another thing to remeber is once the lathe and mill are aquired alot of tooling can be made in house fairly easily. For our smaller lathes we made a aloris style tool holder in house. 2 simple dovetails on the block lock was a sliding dovetail with a thumb screw on the back side of the toolholders dovetail. Worked great was accurate and repeatable. Boring bar holders die holders tap holders floats can all be made once the basic tooling is there. A lot of tooling dosnt need to be "hard" just accurate and tough.

[plainsman456]

And as far as tooling goes don't trash those broke drill bits or end mills.
They can be used for cutting tools because the end with flutes are hard the end that goes in the drill is not.