Hobby machinist - Is it worth starting?

[leebuilder]

Do it!
I got my lathe about ten years ago. Have a Smithy 12-20 LTD. Beware of the cheaper stuff out there, get good gear it lasts and is accurate and true.
I never got it to turn a profit or even make money at it. Love machining and having the lathe gave me indepentence, been a Red Seal machinist for 25 years, not a week goes by that i dont make metal smaller. Once the word hit the street i have been helping many peaple, repair and parts making. I have many projects from steam engines to scope mounts.
I can say now it has payed for itself at least five times over.
As for info the internet is a great source now, and ideas for projects as well.
my only limit is my imagination.
be safe
need help ask.

[oldred]

The thing is a person doesn't have to buy everything he will eventually need all at once, just starting with the lathe as was said earlier will get a person hooked for life and from there it can only get better! Obtaining the basic machine is the first step but then comes the tooling, if looking at a used lathe consider the fact that tooling can easily cost as much as the machine eventually and if a used machine has a lot of tooling with it that can make the deal worth a heck of a lot more. Personally I think the tooling "packages" that some outfits sell are a big waste, buy only what you need as you need it and you will avoid spending a lot of money on tool box clutter!

[Jeff Michel]

If your looking for some hobby type ideas, here is group of pretty clever folks. It will give you a sense of what level of skill a "hobby" machinist can obtain. http://www.modelenginemaker.com

[KCSO]

You get started and there will be no end of uses. Your neighbors will be over can you make this all the time. I make my own tools, dies, punches, lawnmoer parts scribes and more. I have made parts to fix the dishwasher and the garbage disposal. Start slow and work up and each additional tool you add adds to what you can do for yourself.

[blaser.306]

Get your equipment and enjoy it! I have had many people tell me buying equipment is / was a waste of money! I don't believe them for a minute!!! I can go into my shop and look at my goodies, turn them on and work with them for a while and always amaze myself when a shiny new tool emerges. So do not let the nay Sayers influence your decision. But do take the advice that has been given here, Buy the best you can afford. I did just that and am happy with what I have, would I be happier with a Hardinge tool room lathe? Perhaps! Would I be happy with the divorce that would have come along with it , I think not. Bear in mind that the machinery is just that. Machinery, the tooling is where the cash is!!! One of the biggest obstacles I have encountered here is buying tooling. If you aren't a full CNC shop you are not considered a machinist. most places will not even open the door for you if you are not spending thousands of dollars a month with them. Then there comes the free " advice " given by the new trained machinists ( operators ) I was kindly informed one fine day that is was impossible to cut a thread single point with a non CNC lathe.
So, to re emphasize, buy your machinery ( best you can afford ) pick away at tooling ( again the best you can afford ) and learn at your own speed. Most of all have fun and be safe! Equipment has no remorse!

[cheese1566]

As a fellow Black Hills resident, I know what you mean about not finding much used on craigslist, etc. You should go down to Industrial Secondhand, its on Dyess avenue north of the interstate. That guy has scads of used machine equipment, and is willing to deal if you find something you like. Much better prices than Shoener's Machine. I only have a small 7x12 mini lathe, and its pretty surprising how many things can be made on such a small machine. I also just do it as a hobby, most of the things I make is for reloading/guns, but even the ability to make the odd custom bushing for other projects is nice.

Ditto from the Northern Hills as well. I like to cruise Industrial Secondhand myself. He gets some lathes from time to time and his inventory changes. I looked but settled on a bigger Grizzly after I tried ordering a mini. I bought one for your same reasoning. I like to tinker and learn on it. I have made dies for sizing, dies for 45acp shotshell, small parts, and a legal suppressor. I don't use it much during winter since I don't constantly hear my garage.

Take a look at harbor freight in Rapid City, they have a mini on the shelf.

[oldred]

I have posted these pics before but these two rifles were built with just my lathe before I acquired a mill using a homebuilt milling attachment and a few other homemade tooling items. These were built totally from scratch using raw materials for everything except for the barrels and brass butt plates, the barrels were machined from heavy raw blanks from Green Mountain barrels with even the octagon flats on the larger one being done on the lathe using another homemade attachment.

The point is you really don't "need" a shop full of high tech equipment to accomplish something meaningful, certainly all the bells and whistles make things go easier and faster but that's the beauty of doing this as a hobby -you can take the time you need! I worked, if you can call it work, on each one of those things for months but it was time I probably would have wasted sitting in front of a tv otherwise. I have since acquired my mill, well two of them actually a BP clone and a mini-mill both of which have their place, and various other bits-n-pieces to feed this fever.

[dh2]

in younger days I did get a two year degree in tool and die, but working on trucks for uncle sam and other has paid the bills, over the years some of what I learned has served me well. but making a friend that has passed, that was a gun smith help me come out with a rifle that I wanted for many years, a 98 Mauser in .338-06 and what that started me doing I have servile 98 Mausers built in what ever caliber I wanted at the time. done with an old but good belt driven South Bend lathe and a Bridge port mill both over 50 years old.
There is many shops of all kinds where these old Machines are still working to day, I am looking around to find some at auction. I am sure the work is out there for them if only for a hobby.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I am sure there are people who find it infuriating when you say things like "it all depends what you mean by worth it." But in this case it is true. I don't know any aspect of amateur machining in which you can actually save money on things you could have bought. It depends on how much you enjoy doing things for yourself, and often things that couldn't be bought.

I'd agree that the lathe is by far the most useful of machine-tools. You can even do a lot of small milling jobs with a vertical slide and vice on the cross-slide. While a large lathe is undoubtedly the counsel of perfection, a lot of very useful work can be done on sights, scope mounts, firing-pins etc. with a small one.

The biggest step up in usefulness comes with a headstock bore large enough to fit a barrel into and work on the chamber end. A pretty good second best is something like my 7in. swing extra long bed Myford, which can accommodate a barrel between centres, so that you can thread a barrel at the tailstock end. But I once threaded a P14 Enfield barrel on a 13in. between centres lathe, by temporarily soft soldering a mandrel into a short chamber, removing the tailstock altogether, and supporting the muzzle end of the barrel in the fixed steady.

While many will advise you (reasonably enough) that a used American or European lathe may be better value than a new Asian one, you should make sure that it doesn't leave you looking for unavailable parts and accessories. Worst of all, perhaps, is an elderly lathe which requires change wheels to set the screw-cutting pitches, and doesn't have the change wheels. Watch out, too, that you don't buy a machine with freak toolholding tapers (by modern standards), such as Brown and Sharpe.

A collet chuck is a very useful accessory. Mine is for 5C collets, which go up to 1.125in. in size, aren't unduly expensive, and are available in a very wide range of Imperial and metric sizes, including square and hexagonal. For a milling machine, if it isn't really small, a rotary table or spin index fitment is useful. With this and the lathe, you can make reamers.

[oldred]

I'd agree that the lathe is by far the most useful of machine-tools. You can even do a lot of small milling jobs with a vertical slide and vice on the cross-slide.

While the vise type milling attachments can be very handy I found them to be quite limited. What I did was to buy a small decent quality milling table and used parts from that mounted on a heavy angle plate, with the T-slots and the ability to move in all axises I was able to use my lathe in much the same way as a normal mill. I was even able to mount a 6" rotary table to this setup and also a small milling vise when required, setup was somewhat of a pain sometimes due to the table being vertical but once the work was clamped in place it performed quite well. Definitely not something one would want for a job shop or production environment but for a hobby situation it can be very handy indeed until a proper mill can be obtained.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

You make a valid distinction here, and it also applies to the use of a compound table on a drill press. Either would be inadequate for regular work or extreme precision, and yet might be fine for a lifetime of the occasional jobs the amateur gunsmith needs.

[bob208]

as was stated get buy good machines first time buy once pay once cry once. the offshore mini lathes are to be kind toys to be honest junk. a good used south bend 9" would get you going.


one thing that no one has said is the independence you will have of being able to do your own machining. I guess I have been lucky all my machines have paid for themselves.

[Whiterabbit]

What do you guys find yourself using your lathes or mills for on a periodic or regular basis? Is it worth it for just the shooting, reloading, and casting side?

powder measure (measures top of powder to neck of case)
base for servo motor and linkage to my RCBS trickler
precision gauges for measuring case length (no-go gauge for trimming)
machining a perfect arc for a rear sight island base to match up to my barrel with no sanding needed
delrin guide block and slider for 1911-spring based subsonic AR BCG spring
ball carrier and muzzle adapter for a false muzzle caplock rifle for fast loading
Of course, 80% AR lower receivers
cutting diameters for concentric die threading
making brass range rods for muzzleloaders. Brass cleaning rods (concentric drill and tap)
Gas check seater (this is a REALLY NICE tool to have)
brass hammer for flint knapping
There are about 1000 things in your house that would nest nicely in other stuff if only you could reduce the diameter a little bit, or bore open the other part. No really.

I didn't plan on making any of this stuff. I bought the lathe because I offered a guy 200 bucks for it (Sieg C6) and he took it. I won't tell you what I paid for the Sieg X3 mill, but my wallet did not spend much time out of my pocket.

Thing is, once you have the equipment in the shop, uses and needs somehow just fabricate themselves.

--------------------

Now that I have it and have been building up tooling, next is teaching myself pistol barrel work. cut, single point crown, single point forcing cone, set back if needed, chamfer muzzle OD, etc. Maybe try cylinder chamfering if I feel up to it. will try dovetailing via mill for front sight.

[cheese1566]

as was stated get buy good machines first time buy once pay once cry once. the offshore mini lathes are to be kind toys to be honest junk. a good used south bend 9" would get you going.

.

Well, find us a nice south bend in western SD for the same money as an import...or just a nice south bend for sale at all. Good American tooling is kinda scarce in our neck of the woods.

[oldred]

Well, find us a nice south bend in western SD for the same money as an import...or just a nice south bend for sale at all. Good American tooling is kinda scarce in our neck of the woods.

You're right and there has been quite a bit of discussion about this on another thread, old iron is nice but it's in short supply for decent machines and has gotten quite expensive when you do find them. These machines are obviously old and have seen a lot of use, we hear about the gem that was found barely used from time to time and I'm sure it's true but a person can wait a loooooong time on such a deal and still never find one! If the Asian machines had a bad reputation or weren't up to the job it might be different but that's simply not the case, the 12"+ machines have a good following and most are decent machines that are accurate, reliable and with a lot of desirable features not usually found on "old iron" plus they are NEW! Buying one of those old beasts can be like buying a classic car, you had better like working on them as much as working with them! The fact is there are many more folks looking to buy a lathe (just check the back-order situation at Grizzly!) than there are examples of good industrial machines available, sure some folks can point to their own lucky find or tell about others but that's no help to someone waiting on the right machine to come along at the right price and most of the old ones are simply worn out.

[country gent]

Tool and die maker here for 35 years. Two things to remeber in setting up a home shop. You never know it all, and You never have enough tooling for the machines. A good lathe can do alot, maybe not save money but allows you to make just what you want how you want it. Imagine custom scope rails with 10-20mins elevation built into them. Scope rails with the redfield mount on side for appeture sight when scope isnt being used. Your powder easure leaks small ball powders turn up and fit a nes drum to tighter tolerences. Or make the new powder measure from scratch. Need a special thred for a project lathe will do it. Mills are also quite handy in what can be accomplished. First tooling to puchase are a set of 3" long dowel pins to fit tee slots. Use these when setting up on table with long parts to get close starting out. A sine bar is extremely usefull for precise angles. Makes setting up shallow angles much easier and more precise. An older machinists handbook can be helpfull for the specialty threads shown. Sine bar settings and hole patterns charts alone. Once you et started your ambition and imagination are the ony limits. A small bech mounted tool grinder for sharpening end mills and tooling can be helpfull. The old tool post and HSS hand ground toolbits will accomplish alot. Aloris type tooling is nice but sometimes is more in the way than not. there are several magazines you can subscribe to that give how too and actual projects.

[cheese1566]

Yep, I wanted a mini and had no harbor freight around. I looked at Grizzlies and tried to order one but it was back ordered for months. My dad talked me into bigger and better and I doubled my initial cost and got the G0906 that has a 1" bore. I am glad I listened as I can run 1" and 7/8" stock in it. It easily cuts 7/8-14 threads for dies. I am sure it isn't precise as a good American or gun smithing lathe, but it is functioning quite well for me and my small projects and learning. I don't and won't plan using it for a living or production.
Heck, I was going to thread my 22LR barrel but decided it was above me at the moment in concentric issues. So I outsourced it to Volquartsen.

my two cents:
- get a copy of How to Run A Lathe
- get some HSS blank bits and learn how to grind your own (before using carbide! I am glad I did at first as I made custom bits for my suppressor baffles)
- get friendly with a local machinist and ask him questions ( I am grateful to have a father-son owned machine shop across the street from office. Homemade baked goods goes a long way when they take coffee breaks at 10am!!)
- Enco.com and Shars for cheap tooling ( gasp, Asian stuff again!)
- have fun and stay safe!

[rondog]

I was a machinist for a lotta years and loved it. I really miss it. But doing it as a hobby? Bring cash. Lots and lots and LOTS o' cash! The machines and getting them set up to run is bad enough, but the tooling for them is brutally expensive. And you WILL break tools!

Not something I'd recommend, especially if you've never done it before.

[JSnover]

I'm sure that much of the content is the same as now.

Geometry works as well now as it did then. Later editions include new materials but the home shop machinist would probably get along well enough with pre-war copies.

[smokeywolf]

I've been machining parts for 35 years. Did a formal apprenticeship in the old Metro Goldwyn Mayer Machine Shop. Took at least ten years before I felt that I could call myself a "machinist". Dad did some machining, so I inherited a small Kennedy box with some basic measuring tools.

I have a very substantial engine lathe and a comparatively low hour Bridgeport mill. Both machines came out of the MGM shop and both are of mid '80s vintage. Although the machinery is the heart of any shop, it is largely useless without the tooling. Where my machinery might be worth $14,000, my tooling is worth well over double that. And there is the fly in the ointment. You can get away with spending as little as a $1,000 on a used lathe, but you'll spend that again in the first year on tooling. That's just the start of this joyous madness; looking for that next piece of tooling that will enhance the accuracy and capabilities of your lathe.

There's..... face drivers, tailstock chucks, tool posts, that tool holder that didn't come with the post, follow rest, steady rest, taper attachment, live center, spring loaded live center, button die holder, indicator holder, solid carbide boring bars, inserts for the boring bars and other turning & facing tools. Oh, and don't forget the square hole drills... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjckF0-VeGI Do I have these square hole drills? Yep!!! No such thing as having all the tooling you need.

Seriously, you are not going to save any money by machining your own parts. But, I can't describe the sense of satisfaction felt from doing it yourself. Plus, if you want it done to your standards, don't trust anyone else to machine it for you. The more stuff you can do on your own, the better off you will be when the libs have finished giving the Country away to the muslims and criminal aliens.