OK . . . Sonic or Tumbler? Need help . . .

[bedbugbilly]

OK - please "educate" me as to what I need. I want to clean brass. I shoot mainly 38s - BP and Smokeless and 8mm Mauser. I'm pretty low key - usually use "range brass" and not a competitor but love to "plink". On my BP cartridges - after range time, I de-prime and was in hot soap and water then dry. Up till not, I've never really cleaned, or I should say "shined" my brass. I can put up with some tarnish, etc. and they fire just fine. But some of ti is looking pretty grungy . . . especially my 38 brass.

I've read a number of posts on here in regards to Sonic Cleaners and Tumbling. I'm not going to be doing a great quantity - 38s maybe a couple hundred or so at a time - 8mm Mauser - maybe 100 at a time.

On a budget . . what is going to work the best? A "Sonic" or a "Tumbler"? On the Sonics, I'm assuming you can de-prime, toss them in and let it go. If I add a little soap and some citric acid . . . will the citric acid clean up the tarnish? I know theres no way to add a "wax" to a Sonic to get that nice "mirror finish" like a Tumbler would give but I'm mainly interested in cleaning out the crud from BE, RD, Unique, etc. on casings that have been fired a few times.

Or . . . is a Tumbler the way to go? I'd probably use a tumbling media - not SS pins. I'm assuming the best method with the tumbling is to leave the brass primed and then de-prime after tumbling to keep crud out of the primer pockets?

I'm sure that everybody has their preferences and probably there is "old school" versus "new school". I'm "old" and just want to clean smaller quantities once in a while and not spend an arm and a leg. So "pros and cons" of Sonic versus Tumbling? What does one way have over the other? And . . . are there brands to "avoid" in both Sonic and Tumbler cleaners?

Any help & suggestions would be appreciated. Not looking to start a debate . . . and I've already read a lot of posts - just need to hear what would work best for small quantities. I know several use cement mixers - I really don't have that much brass to do and I'm sure my wife wouldn't appreciate me using the washing machine! LOL

[kfarm]

I've Used both. I have the larger harbor freight model. One thing I don't like about it that you can only set it for a max time of 480 seconds at a time. I have not used any commercial cleaner and what I have tried has not worked very well for me. However was able to clean an old 22's bolt that I couldn't get apart by using diluted simple green. As for the vibratory units I have 2, hornady and midway. Both work equally well with the bulk walnut shells from harbor freight. For the last two years I've gone to the stainless steel pins. Shinny brass for me is a must, I believe it's easier on the dies and the firearm besides it just looks better. I rate the ss pins as the best followed by the vibratory tumblers then the ultrasonic.

[bangerjim]

I just use a bucket with citric acid and water in it! Leaves the brass clean and shiny. I clean 9,38,357,40,45acp,45CL,30-30, 30-06. I used to do dry vib tumbling (walnut shells + tsp of Bon Ami) for extremely corroded, but citric acid + water bath is amazing!

Get Ball brand Citric Acid in the canning section of most WalMarts. Used in canning foods.

If you want a "protective coat", spray one or 2 squirts of ArmorAll on the cleaned wet brass, roll around, dump, and dry.

lost of info on CA: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-brass-cleaner

bangerjim

[Charlie in Co]

SS pin tumbling is the way to go, especially if you shoot BP in brass cases.

[tiger762]

Another vote for wet-tumbling. Use HOT water to get the reaction rate up. Lemi-shine in an amount appropriate for how "hard" your water is. Dish soap. Stainless steel pins a few pounds heavier than the amount of brass you're doing. I clean them after size/deprime. Cleans the primer pocket BUT sometimes leaves two pins stuck in the flash hole. I prime by hand..,

[noylj]

>OK - please "educate" me as to what I need.
I said it before, and I'll repeat it, "case cleaning-the least important activity that so many spend so much time on."
What you need to do is wipe off the exterior of the case using a rag so no dirt/grit damages the sizing die. THAT is the sum total of what you need to do.
If you want something "simpler" and like to buy new toys, simply get any tumbler and 20/40 corn and tumble your cases for 30 minutes. That exceeds anything you need to do.
Next step up is to deprime all cases prior to cleaning, so tumbling can remove the occasional white powder residue in the primer pocket. I do this so the powder stays in the garage and not on my press or in my house.
After this, you are entering OCD territory. This is ONLY done 'cause you want to and not for any need.
Add a little mineral spirits and/or paper towel/used softener dryer sheets to tumbler to slightly reduce the powder produced and make cases a little shinier. This is particularly good for those who insist on using net media and producing LOTS of fine powder.
Next, add Nu-Finish abrasive/polish car polish to tumbler to further shine the cases and leave a polymer residue on the cases.
Do you want your cases totally clean in 20-30 minutes? Does that little black residue in the primer pocket drive your OCD crazy? Get an ultrasonic cleaner. The use of citric acid will give the cases a slight polish.
Are you willing to tumble for 2-8 hours to get clean and shiny cases? Then get a Thumler's Tumbler #B and SS pins.
In no case, is any cleaning method going to produce more accurate ammo, but it will "look" nicer.
Finally, notice how many pages the average reloading manual uses to cover case cleaning? If there is even one page, I would surprised. Then again, I am surprised that the manuals seem to use NO pages to discuss COL and determining what is best.

[bangerjim]

I agree. Dingy darkened brass shoots just as well as shiny glossy brass in my book.

I do not do thousands of rounds to peddle on S&S. It is my own personal usage.

Nobody sees my ammo but me.

I have never been anal about bright shiny brass. Far from it. A quick wipe with a rag and that is about it. Only when some are REEEEEEELY dark and tarnished will I use the dry vib with walnut shells and Bon Ami. About 30 minutes is all it takes.

Now days, using citric acid is a no-brainer. Fast, easy, and yields really good finish with hardly any labor. 10 minutes is all I use for nice clean brass. "CLEAN" in my book anyway. Who cares if the insides are perfectly shiny clean anyway.

I prefer to spend my valuable time casting/loading/shooting. Not messing with wet tumblers with Timkin needle bearings in them. And digging those pins out of the cases and holes.

To each his own.

[Vann]

I have an RCBS sonic cleaner and a STM Rebel 17 tumbler. There is no comparison between the two, the stainless steel pins in the wet tumbler cleans way better than the sonic cleaner. About the only thing I use the sonic cleaner for now is cleaning gun parts. As far as getting pins hung in cases. I haven't had that happen yet. I load fairly large amount of cases so I usually decap my brass and wet tumble it for about an hour, then I throw it into a vibatory cleaner full of corn cob for about 30 minutes or so just to dry it out. I can't stand water spots.

On my rifle brass I've found that if I size it, trim it, and then throw it into the tumbler. I save a lot of time by not having to wipe the sizing lube of each case and that the stainless steel pins debur the cases good enough that I usually don't have to. Also the primer pockets and inside of the case is spotless.

If you just want shiny cases, spinning the cases with a lee quick trim shell holder chucked in a drill with fine steel wool does wonders.

I have 3 vibatory cleaners, 2 are loaded with corn cob and 1 with crushed walnut shell. These have served me well for years, my only complaint being having to clean out the primer pockets on 1000 plus cases. A clean primer pocket is a must when your shooting on the clock.

Just my 2 cents.

Vann

[dudel]

I have a sonic cleaner and a dry tumbler. My sonic cleaner (HF) doesn't do as good a job on brass as the dry vibratory tumbler does. My sonic cleaner does a good job on gun parts, so gun parts in the sonic cleaner, brass in to vibratory cleaner. My Midway vibratory cleaner has been doing the job of cleaning brass for almost 30 years now. Normally my brass just needs an hour or so in corn cob media with a capful of NuFinish. If it's really nasty, it gets a cleaning in walnut media, followed by a polish in corn cob. I stay away from pet litter media. It's hell to get out of bottleneck brass, it also doesn't do much for primer pockets. The fine Lyman or Midway media works just fine for me, and lasts a long time (depending on how dirty your brass is).

[1_Ogre]

I have both tumblers and an ultra sonic. The ultra sonic is only used for gun parts though, not that great on brass. The tumblers do all I need to get the brass cleaned. I'm not into factory new finishes as that's what factory new is. I get my walnut media from Harbor Freight and it does a good job for me. A capful of NuFinish once in a while puts a coating on the brass to it doesn't tarnish. Other than that, that's what I've been using for several decades. I don't use the Lyman walnut media because it has that rogue **** in it and leaves a red tint on the brass and that I don't like.

[bedbugbilly]

Thanks all for the information - greatly appreciated!

It's not that I'm "anal" or "OCD" about "shiny brass" - I'm really not. The reason for my question is that reading posts, there are sooooo many ideas of what folks do, And . . . I'm basically looking for the best method to clean brass at the cheapest price . . . . both in $ and time.

And yes . . I do know enough that brass should be wiped and not gritty before shoving into a carbide die . . . I've raised the ram on thousands of casings into a carbide and steel die. I'm not really talking about "dirty brass" such as range pickups where they've been laying in the mud . . . I'm talking about brass that is really grungy looking with more than a pleasing "patina" to it

Several examples are two different batchs of 1X fired brass that I have on the shelf right now. I bought about 100 casings of 8 X 57 Mauser commercial brass from a guy that had been laying around for years. It has that really dark tarnished look to it . . . would probably be just fine to load and shoot but since I really don't know a whole lot about the history of the casings, I'd kind of like to shine them up so you can tell they are brass, anneal 'em and start "fresh" with them. I also had a neighbor give me a box (probably 3 or 4 hundred) of 38 specials that have been sitting for years and they look as bad as the Mauser casings.

As far a cleaning my BP casings - I decided to load my 38s in nickel casings to indicate they were BP even though I mark the box they are stored in. I also figured the nickel might clean up easier than brass. The idea was good but then, for some reason, I began to notice that I was having a fairly high incident of split mouths in them after only a couple of firings - don't ask me why that was but it was enough to take notice so I switched back to brass casings and have had no more issues. I know some think nickel casings are more prone to split and that may be the case but I never experienced that with my loading using smokeless in them - maybe I was just lucky? At any rate, the method of washing that I'm using with the BP casings now seems to clean them very well with a minimum amount of work and/or equipment.

It appears that what I need to try first is what bangerjim suggests . . . just a good citric acid solution bath. It sounds like the least expensive way to go to just do a general "clean up" of the brass to get it looking decent and get rid of the heavy patina on it - at least to get the 8 X 57 brass so it looks better before annealing and hopefully easier to spot any defects in the casing. Easy and quick to do in a plastic bucket.

Thanks all for you great input and suggestions . . . it gives me a place to "start" and then some ideas of what to move on to if necessary. Greatly appreciate it!

[dragonrider]

I have a vibratory tumbler and a rotary tumbler, the rotary tumbler is better by far. I only use ground corn cob or walnut shell with Dillon rapid shine added. Also the rotary tumbler is by far better. I do have a HF sonic cleaner but the noise drives me nuts. I do use it to clean stuff like gun parts but only when I can leave the room.

[bangerjim]

I have a sonic cleaner and a dry tumbler. My sonic cleaner (HF) doesn't do as good a job on brass as the dry vibratory tumbler does. My sonic cleaner does a good job on gun parts, so gun parts in the sonic cleaner, brass in to vibratory cleaner. My Midway vibratory cleaner has been doing the job of cleaning brass for almost 30 years now. Normally my brass just needs an hour or so in corn cob media with a capful of NuFinish. If it's really nasty, it gets a cleaning in walnut media, followed by a polish in corn cob. I stay away from pet litter media. It's hell to get out of bottleneck brass, it also doesn't do much for primer pockets. The fine Lyman or Midway media works just fine for me, and lasts a long time (depending on how dirty your brass is).

The main reason your HF cleaner will not do brass is because it is HF! VERY Low power....made to clean jewelry and small items...one or two at a time.

My 1,000 watt industrial strength (NOT including the heater) cleaner will pound the dirt off just about anything I put in the HUGE SST container. I use it for cleaning clock movements. When on, the fluid dances violently on the surface. The new HF unit I bought for a couple bucks at a junk store is severely under powered. I use it for only rings and jewelry...small tiny stuff a couple at a time.

[dudel]

The main reason your HF cleaner will not do brass is because it is HF! VERY Low power....made to clean jewelry and small items...one or two at a time.

My 1,000 watt industrial strength (NOT including the heater) cleaner will pound the dirt off just about anything I put in the HUGE SST container. I use it for cleaning clock movements. When on, the fluid dances violently on the surface. The new HF unit I bought for a couple bucks at a junk store is severely under powered. I use it for only rings and jewelry...small tiny stuff a couple at a time.

Thanks. It does much better on gun parts, so I use it for that. The tumblers do better for brass (and not so good on gun parts!), so I have each piece doing what it does best. Everyone is happy.

[gunoil]

WATCH
I built one: still use it, then neighbor polishes brass in lizard liter when l ask him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_FpiTzVYP8

[trixter]

A long time ago I bought a Lyman 1200 turbo tumbler, and some lizzard litter, a $3.00 bag lasts me a couple of years. I add Nu-Finish about every 5th run and always use a dryer sheet, cut into 4 strips to remove the dust and dirt. I do about 400 to 500 .45 shells a month and about the same 223/556. I also have a Franklin Arsenal media separator that I got about 6 months ago, the system works good for me. I've done the acid bath method, and it does work, but it's just hard for me to get "shooting stuff" wet. I know that you need to dry it good, but it's just me. I'd say whatever works for you, use it.

[texassako]

I clean bp and smokeless case and bought one of the HF dual 3 pound tumblers and 2 pounds of SS pins(1# each). A cap full of Coral brand wash and wax on each drum makes brass squeaky clean and easy to work with with the bit of wax. A bit of lemishine helps the really tarnished brass. I clean deprimed so the pockets get scrubbed by the pins. I don't think I will ever go back to dry media tumbling.

[Geezer in NH]

I have a HF sonic and have had it ruin brass with arcing turning the brass heat blue. I have a vibratory tumblers +2 long time to clean and dangerous dust problem.

Recently got a rotary wet tumbler from FA to use with SS pins. I am very happy and the ultra sound is for cleaning parts only now. The vibes are in my garage attic and may never get used again.

Love the wet tumble, I decap then clean and I do mean clean.

[noylj]

>I have a HF sonic and have had it ruin brass with arcing turning the brass heat blue.

You either had the most screwed-up ultrasonic in the history or mankind or you placed the case on the bottom of the tank. Heat blue brass in a tank of water? Wow!

[zuke]

Stainless is THE way to go. Here's 4000 word's worth.