Lee 452-200-RF confused

[Seeker]

I've been casting and shooting these boolits with great success using Bullseye powder. I thought I'd try some Titegroup. The lee manual suggests 1.600 as the Min. OAL. When I seat this boolit to 1.600 it just barely reaches the crimp groove and not near enough to get a roll crimp. Any suggestions?
I just seated one to get a good roll crimp into the groove and it measures 1.555. That is .045 shorter than suggested Min. My powder charge is 7.4 grns. Max is 7.7.

[Yodogsandman]

You might have found a glitch in the manual. I would crimp within the crimp groove and start with STARTING loads. Then work up slowly and carefully using prudent, safe reloading practices.

[Seeker]

You might have found a glitch in the manual. I would crimp within the crimp groove and start with STARTING loads. Then work up slowly and carefully using prudent, safe reloading practices.

You are right saying I should start with STARTING loads. With all my experience with Titegroup,(9mm, .40s/w, .45acp and 45 colt)...low starting loads always leave a black stained, burnt looking case (which points to a low charge) also, which I was trying to avoid. Start with this combo is 6.5 and Max is 7.7
All I've read about loading lead boolits says to seat to the cannalure or crimp groove. I was just a little concerned about doing it with a fast burner like Titegroup.

[bedbugbilly]

+1 ^

One thing you don't mention is what is the OAL of your brass casing? If it's a little short - when you seat to the cartridge over all length the mouth is going to come up short in regards to the crimp groove.

I am set up to load 45 but haven't started yet. I do use Bulls Eye most of the time in my 38s - love that powder. As Yodogsandman suggests . . . . start at the beginning lowest charge shown in the manual . . . or even a few tenths of a grain below the minimum charge . . . then work up . . . and follow the usual safe practices of working up a load.

As an example - I have a number of reloading manuals and they don't always agree on the load in regards to min/max for a specific 38 boolit - all depends on when the manual was published, what gun was used for testing the load for the data and how much "lawyering" was involved at the time. I have often loaded BE in 38s starting at UNDER the minimum load shown - then worked up until I find the "magic spot". Personally, I just plink and I have never loaded at or close to maximum - but that's me. If you start under the "minimum" load . . . load a few up and try them and in between shots, check for "squibs" and if no problem with them . . . move up gradually until you find what works best in your gun.

In my 38s . . . I use mainly "range brass" . . . and the casings are not always the same length but usually not a problem. I use a number of different boolit designs and seat to the crimp groove . . . sometimes the cartridges are a little under the COAL shown in the manual by a few thousandths but since my loads are under the maximum data, they shoot just fine. It all boils down to common sense and following the safety rules of reloading. Good luck and enjoy!

[tsubaki]

1.600" is the suggested MAXIMUM COL in several of my books.

[Seeker]

All is well. Lee def. states MIN. I loaded some of each at 6.5, 6.8, 7.0, 7.2 and 7.4. Then I went out back to the bench (Beautiful day for this stuff) Shot them all and the most accurate was 7 grns. No pressure signs on any, but soot on them all. All of them were crimped into the groove which was .045 too short...according to Lees 2nd edition. Thanks for the help guys. I know this isn't rocket science so maybe I was being too careful or just needed someone to talk about it with. I do know that best practice is start low and work up. Now it's time to go have some fun with the Blackhawk. I may load up a few more 300 grn.XTPs with H110. They are a blast.

[tsubaki]

I just went through every book I have on hand. The majority of them do have a suggested maximum COL of 1.600".
HOWEVER
There are varied suggestions on certain bullets/loads by Hodgdon, Accurate and a couple more of a COL of up to 1.735".
I've found at least one reference of a cartridge being only 1.460".
Unless I've overlooked it, I don't have data for the Lee 200gr RF but for others.

[TXGunNut]

For a moment there I thought we were talking 45ACP. Yes, 1.6 seems to be universal max length for the 45 COLT but I let the crimp groove determine COL for revolvers.