Lee TL452-230TC for Woods Potection?

[Southern Shooter]

I recently gave my brother a Pietta 1873 .45 Colt revolver with a 5.5" barrel. His plan is to do some plinking with it and also use it for protection when roaming the woods in Colorado, Utah and, of course here in Louisiana. We were discussion hand loads and I clearly stated that he should stay at or under the standard pressure range. He indicated that he already has the Lee TL452-230TC boolit mold and wondered if it would perform well for protection in the woods. I indicated that I have the Lee 452-255-RF and would recommend it for his hand loads. However, he pointed out that he has been happy with this mold in his .45 ACP because it is accurate enough and he does not need to size the bullets due to the tumble lube mold design.

Question: Is this bullet one to use in the manner he wishes? I was hoping he would go for something with a larger meplat. If he sticks with this boolit what velocities would be needed for it to perform well ( i.e., penetration, breaking. damage, etc. )

[Cowboy_Dan]

No matter what you load it with, .45 Colt ain't no slouch. That said, I'm not sure exactly what sort of critters he may need to use it against. Personally, I wouldn't want to face a bear with that load, but most other things on this continent wouldn't have a chance.

[NVScouter]

No matter what you load it with, .45 Colt ain't no slouch. That said, I'm not sure exactly what sort of critters he may need to use it against. Personally, I wouldn't want to face a bear with that load, but most other things on this continent wouldn't have a chance.

A 230g cast at 1000fps aint no slouch for sure. I dont think the 250 @900 or 300 @750 would be a huge improvement but they would be somewhat better in the old SAA loadings. Just make sure it shoots and doesnt need boolits fatter than that one makes (.452). Cant kill what you cant hit well.

[runfiverun]

it was no coincidence that the 45 acp had ballistics of a 230gr bullet at 850 fps.
that was pretty much the schofield [short colt.] load, which with a bullet weight 20 grs lighter than the colts 250 it matched it's velocity.
if he is comfortable with his acp the [14-k] colt load won't give him any more or any less with the same boolit weight.

[Bula]

I have that mold with the standard lube groove. Lubed with 50/50, weighs just under 240g. 237g if I recall correctly. Pushed at about 1000 fps, I don't think it'll perform much different than a 250 grainer. I do like the big flat RNFP, but if this is what he has, I'd say hes fine. I would not say this was the case in really big bear country.

[quickdraw66]

I know one thing, I dang sure wouldn't want to be shot with one of those bullets. I use it in my 1911, and it thumps the heck out of anything I shoot with it. VERY accurate too. I imagine it would be even better in a 45 Colt.

[jonp]

I use this boolit in my 45LC Blackhawk. I'm comfortable with it east of the Mississippi but out west if he might happen upon a big bear I don't think its enough no matter how fast he drives it. I'd opt for a bigger one in the 255gr range as you suggested.

IMHO bigger is always better when dealing with critters that might want to eat you

[jcren]

Haven't shot anything bigger than a big coon, but intend to do some woods deer hunting with it. Things hit like a sledgehammer!

[kens]

A .45acp boolit has no crimp groove because all ACP rounds headspace on the case mouth.
A 45 Colt boolit will have a crimp groove for positive boolit seating under recoil whilst in the cylinder.

[runfiverun]

he has a place to crimp with hat T/L boolit, it's just a matter of cylinder length.

[MT Chambers]

One word: 454424 or a 250 gr. wfn style.

[RogerDat]

Well either one would be better than banging pots and pans and hoping the noise drove the bear off. Seems to me some sort of balance is in order. You could carry the nuke-em-500 but carry weight and radiation flash are both a problem. Not much in N. America can take either bullet you list. Those that can are why you practice double tap. The stuff still standing after a second shot is really big and about to give you a really bad time. Shoot more times, no point in being eaten with rounds still in the cylinder, and who knows it might discourage Godzilla bear or pissed off moose. Or like I said carry something very heavy and powerful on the odd chance you need all that power. If you think about it canines can be as much of a problem as bears and more common.

[LouisianaMan]

I, too, would prefer the greater momentum and meplat of the 255g, but the 230g (also a 237g when cast from my mold & alloy) is no slouch.

Try "bumping" a larger flat on the 230g, after which you should be prepared to resize it in case you've gotten a bit too aggressive and squashed the entire bullet too much. I've had great success with this procedure on a variety of bullets, as it enlarges the meplat and creates sharp edges. I've never bumped this 230g design, since I use it in a 1911 & don't want problems with feeding. I recently got a Redhawk in .45 Colt, so I'll be trying the procedure soon.

Our Louisiana black bear and other wildlife will not stand this sort of treatment too well at 900-1000 fps from your brother's gun

Personally, I wouldn't wish to rely on any handgun against grizzlies. If I had to stick with the power levels appropriate for a 1873 Colt clone, with its relatively slow rate of fire, I'd want every edge I could get and would use the 255g instead of the 230g. Cast the bullets as hard and sharp-edged as consistent with basic accuracy.

Assuming no change in the gun or molds available, you can still plunk down a $20 and get a box of 260g SWC-K's from Matt's Bullets. Those will give the best possible combination of momentum, weight, cutting & smashing effects, and penetration for the task at hand, since Elmer designed them as hunting bullets.

I've owned & loved a Uberti 1873 clone, Vaquero, 625 Mountain Gun, and now the Redhawk, all in .45LC. I also own the 1911. If I had those choices to recommend to your brother, the top 2 would be the Redhawk and the 1911. I'd probably choose the Redhawk and learn to shoot the heaviest, fastest, hardest Keith-style bullet I could, consistent with speed and acceptable close-range bear-defense accuracy. A very close second choice would be the 1911, with hardcast 230's loaded to 900, and a stronger recoil spring installed. I'd want every possible chance to fire multiple times to try to stop a charging grizzly, and would consider myself supremely fortunate to physically stop the bear. A single-action, low pressure .45LC would suit me fine down here in the Bayou State, but personally I'd not at all want to depend on it in big bear country.

OTOH, I'd prefer a BAR!!!!

[pls1911]

You will do fine but will likely need to adjust load to zero the lighter bullet the point of aim or adjust your poa slightly...not much mind you, but SAA clones with fixed sights normally are set for the standard 250 grain load.
Just like tweeking slightly when going to the RCBS 270 SAA SWC.

[RobS]

The Lee 255 RF would carry more mass and has a larger meplat. Those would be the reasons for me to use it over the LEE 230 TC. If I'm going to be going slower I typically go heavier.