Frustrating day for a newbie!

[Flintlock Hokie]

I spent 3 hours this afternoon trying to cast .490 round balls from wheel weights but didn't make a single keeper! This was my 3rd casting session, but the first with a new Lee melter. Previously I used a cast iron pot on a Coleman stove and used a ladle to fill the mould. I've made several hundred decent round balls that way (and a lot of rejects too). (The keepers shoot very well and I have the pictures to prove it.)

Today I could NOT get a decent cast, either with the bottom pour or a ladle. I have two ladles, a Lyman and a Lee, and I tried them both. I could NOT get the lead to keep from sticking to the Lyman ladle, even after submersing the ladle in the molten lead for several minutes. The Lee was just the opposite. It easily shed the lead once it got hot.

My pot temperature was 750-800 F. Even after 15-20 casts, my round balls kept coming up with imperfections. I'm using a Lee double cavity mould. I even quit at one point and degreased the mould with denatured alcohol. That didn't help.

Anybody in the Northern Delaware area who would like to spend a few hours showing me how it's done? I seem to recall seeing a poster from DE once before.

Maybe I should just stick to making fishing weights!

[big bore 99]

Don't give it up! Maybe scrub out the mold with comet and a toothbrush? Did you let the mold get hot? Try smoking the mold? I have excellent results with the Lee bottom pour melter.

[MT Chambers]

While not a Lee fan, I think your probs. are a) not hot enough mold(and you must cast fast enough to keep it hot) Are you preheating that mold on an electric hot plate?
b) maybe some type of oil in cavities, clean well with brake cleaner and toothbrush( not your personal toothbrush).

[country gent]

Several tricks to casting great round balls. Fut the mould right to the spout and pressure cast them keeping pot at least 1/2 full, Make sure vent lines are clean and clear, use the point of a sharp exacto knife to clean and clear them lightly. Try angling mold to one side or the other allowing lead to swirl when it enters cavity. Clean mould good and dry well before casting. You might try lightly smoking the cavities with a kitchen match. Clean ladles and other utensil before use also. Sometimes a light polish on a cast iron ladle helps keep lead from sticking. lso add a little tin to wheel wieghts to improve flow. Flux well with wood chips or wax before casting also.

[plainsman456]

Yep hotter mold and pressure will work.

Had the same lesson learned when i poured my first round balls.

Kind of like using a number 1 buckshot mold for the first time.

It will come together don't wave the white flag yet.

[bangerjim]

I pour RB's all the time and always use pressure casting....spigot right in sprue until you feel the "tick" of the lead filling the cavity. You will feel it in the handles!

Preheat the mold on a hotplate to full casting temp (important). Most imperfect boolit castings are caused by cold mold/low temp alloy and not dirt/grease/oil in the mold cavities.

RB's are easy to cast......just keep at it!

bangerjim

[44man]

I am confused, why round balls from WW metal?
I see a ML that should use pure lead and a proper patch. The ball should be from bore size to no more then .005" under with a patch that engraves the ball IN THE GROOVES .005".
I knew Bill Large and the Kindigs, grew up with ML's, built custom flintlocks, learned from the best.
These are average RB groups at 50 yards for 5 shots, open sights, when done right. Attachment 139723 I have done better. For a .50 cal, you should have Pure balls of .495". My flinter used .500" balls. That group used a .535" ball and a .022" patch.
That .54 has taken steel chicken targets at 200 meters, 4 out of 5, off hand. It has killed more deer then I can count.
Some think I am only a revolver guy but work never ends. Attachment 139724Attachment 139725 Build like this and you learn a thing or two. Made from 2" curly maple planks.

[44man]

More for you.Attachment 139726 I made all brass parts for all my guns, carved stocks and engraved metal. The Log Cabin wanted me to build rifles but the price was not right.
But I learned to make a ML shoot too.

[bedbugbilly]

I have the same ? that 44 man asked. You don't say "what" you are using the RBs in but if in a muzzleloader, you should be using soft lead.

In regards to the problems you had - lot's of good advice already given. So . . I'll just say "don't give up or get frustrated". You'll get it figured out and like anything, you learn as you go. I have cast from a Ideal cast iron pot over a probane hot plate with a Lyman both pour dipper for 50+ years - both lead for ML and harder stuff for my cartridge guns. The secret is to get you mold up to temp. and then once there and when you start getting good pours - keep your rhythm going. I cast RB in Lyman/Ideals, Lees, RCBS and Ohaus. I preheat the mold and usually never have more than one or two pours that go back into the pot - I'm only cast in single and double cavity molds. Once I get going, I sometimes have a problem with the mold getting too hot so I just cut the sprue and let the mold cool down a couple of minutes, drop the balls and then get at it again.

You'll do fine once you figure it out with the equipment you are using and after a few casting sessions, it will be "old hat" for you. Keep at it and have fun! Good luck!

[44man]

I also built custom stocks for bolt guns, whatever and checkered many guns. The worst was a shotgun with the forearm and iron missing to the receiver. I made the iron by hand and the forearm to fit. Could not buy the parts.
I think back and wonder how I did it, too old now. Here is a rifle stock, cherry that I made for my Swede. the gun will do under 1/2" at 100 too.Attachment 139727Attachment 139728Attachment 139729 The wood was chainsawed from a dead cherry in my woods.
Yeah, I do know ML's and nobody can explain how hard lead shoots. So I don't want to be snippy, show pictures. I took so many groceries from shoots, clubs changed prize rules.

[dondiego]

Many use WW for muzzle loader ammo with fine results.

[Blackwater]

Flint, you didn't give us some info, like whether you de-greased the mold before beginning casting. If you didn't, that may well be your problem. Leaving grease or oil in the cavity WILL make it "gas off" when the hot lead hits it, and that creates all sorts of imperfections when the gasses get trapped and can't escape. It's one reason molds have to be vented, too. If you didn't de-grease before beginning to cast, it's likely that you'll just have to keep casting, now that the burnt oil/grease is already in the mold, until it's all burned away completely. The time it will take to do that will vary according to how much was in it in the first place. Just another possibility. And BTW, I too have found that pure or near pure lead works better in ML's and cap n' ballers, though a buddy and I once used WW's when we couldn't find any straight lead, and they wound up doing OK in one of his guns that had a slightly oversized bore. Since harder lead alloys cast a mite larger, I've always figured that was the reason. This was with a Maxi-Ball mould. FWIW?

[44man]

Notice I do not use borders on checkering to hide a flaw. I was up there long ago with the best, Kennedy, etc. Lost now with age. Hand cut checkering, no machine.
I wish I knew what my guns are worth today. And others I built.
I remember long go I bought the first TC Hawken in a .50, deadly and a RB or Maxi ball would cut a ragged hole at 50 yards. It never fit me right so I sold it to buy parts to make my own. Later a friend bought a new one with that Easy Start junk. We could NOT make it shoot. They changed the barrels.
The Lyman Great Plains rifles were top dog for accuracy. I built many kits for guys and all shot lights out. RB twist.
Many brought the inlines here and I grew to hate the junk. Seen a few put the ramrod against a tree to force a sabot in. If you need to swab a bore between shots you can't hunt. I shot all day without ever wiping a bore. I have reached near 200 shots without a patch down the bore.

[44man]

Many use WW for muzzle loader ammo with fine results.

That has been said but what is FINE? How is a seal made? Burned out and cut patches, leakage.
How would you start a proper ball? Just not right.
Nobody has ever shown hard ball groups, sorry, not ever.
Then at BP velocities, for hunting, pure will never be equaled. I love pure lead and sure wish it would work with smokeless out of my revolvers.
But a ML can rival a modern gun for accuracy. They can kill animals better too. I dare not tell you how many deer I have killed with a .45 flinter or a cap and ball.

[Toymaker]

While I have cast roundball from wheel weights AND been successful, it isn't the best. Posting some pictures of your "failures" would be helpful.
Possible causes for your problems may be 1) oil or grease in the mold; 2) not hot enough; 3) contamination from zinc (likely), antimony (possible), arsenic (maybe); 4) technique.
1) scrub the mold with hot, soapy (detergent) water and a soft toothbrush. Rinse and scrub then rinse with alcohol followed by acetone. Better put the mold in boiling water for 15 minutes, rinse with alcohol followed by acetone. Smoke the mold using a non-resinous wood.
2) what are you using to measure your temperature? My casting thermometer went south on me and I had all sorts of issues until I discovered the problem. Made myself a PID temperature controller - end of problems. The mold needs to be evenly hot too. Lee molds cool very fast.
3) pure lead is really best for proper obturation of the ball. Forget the often recommended tin, it's not needed. I use WW for bullets but am finding that more and more of the newer WWs don't cut the mustard. I sort WWs and do smaller renderings of just one kind into ingots that I can test. It's becoming a PIA and I'm thinking of eliminating WWs all together.
4) wear a welders or fireplace glove because you can get a spout of lead from pressure casting on a bottom pour pot. Hold the mold TIGHT against the spout and open the gate. Experience will teach you when the mold is full. (I drilled the spout hole larger to allow a faster stream). Pull the mold away and let a button form on the sprue plate. IF THE MOLD STICKS TO THE SPOUT, THE MOLD AND/OR THE POT ISN'T HOT ENOUGH. Watch the button - as it hardens it will form a dimple going into the mold. It takes a couple of seconds (experience teaches). If it hardens too fast or doesn't form a dimple, you're not hot enough. Cut the button, drop the ball and refill. Work quick, don't let the mold cool.
With a ladle - so lead collects on the metal handle - so what? Dip that ladle deep into the lead to stir it up to even the heat. Same as with a bottom pour, mold and ladle tight together; they shouldn't stick together; form a button; watch the button; cut, drop, fill again.
A week ago I ladle cast 500 RB and rejected two dozen because they were below 96.0 - 96.4 grains. There were no rejects due to wrinkles, etc.
On the side - if your groups go to pot, change your nipple (you know this). If that doesn't work go to a .495 ball. My .40 long rifle started with a .390 RB. After some time I went to a .395 RB. Within a year of shooting WW's I had to go to a .400 RB and only use pure lead.

Is Marriottsville, MD close to you? The Marriottsville Muzzle Loaders and Tidewater Muzzle Loaders shoot at a range there. Lots of casters. 5/31 Flintlock match; 6/7 Meat shoot, 6/26, 27, 28 MD State Championships; 7/5 Hobbs Shoot; 7/12 Pistol shoot; 8/2 Summer shoot; etc. etc. etc. Contact "Gary" @ 443-386-6960 for Marriottsville Muzzleloaders and "Dennis" @ 301-421-0847 for more info.

Good shootin'. Keep yer powder dry.

[44man]

I can't find it on my map. But due to shoulder injuries I can no longer hold a rifle up, Just last year I ruined my left shoulder but can still shoot from bags. I am in Bakerton WV. Near Harpers Ferry.
I see you are in Spingfield, VA You would be welcome to come and shoot. PM me for my address.

[snuffy]

Your main problem is; your mold is not hot enough. A common rookie mistake is not getting things hot enough. The second most common mistake is examining each ball as you cast them, resulting in the mold cooling too much. The answer is NOT increasing the lead temperature! WW metal should never be above 725 degrees.

All round ball molds are cut in blocks that could be made into a .458 450 grain boolit. What that means is that tiny RB cavity is surrounded with a lot of metal that will cool quickly if it isn't run fast enough.

Forget the smoking the molds advice. Lee says that in their destructions to allow crappy machining to allow boolits/balls to drop easier. Also, using a match just introduces paraffin into the cavities!! HUH? Just look at a wood match, below the head is a layer of wax to enhance the burn of the head, make the wood burn better. It vaporizes that wax, then the wax is deposited on the mold cavities.

WW lead is too hard to make good black powder balls. The pressure that black powder, OR any of the substitutes burns at, is way too low to obturate the ball to make it fit the bore and shoot accurately. Then, even IF you do get it to shoot reasonably well , IF you're hunting with them, they will NOT expand when they hit the deer. A pure round ball will expand very well at the ranges iron sighted BP rifles are used at. Using a hard ball from WW will result in a neat caliber size hole straight through.

[dondiego]

That has been said but what is FINE? How is a seal made? Burned out and cut patches, leakage.
How would you start a proper ball? Just not right.
Nobody has ever shown hard ball groups, sorry, not ever.
Then at BP velocities, for hunting, pure will never be equaled. I love pure lead and sure wish it would work with smokeless out of my revolvers.
But a ML can rival a modern gun for accuracy. They can kill animals better too. I dare not tell you how many deer I have killed with a .45 flinter or a cap and ball.

Never had a problem starting a ball or a torn patch and have had excellent groups. How many WW RB's have you actually put down range?

[44man]

WW lead is too hard to make good black powder balls. The pressure that black powder, OR any of the substitutes burns at, is way too low to obturate the ball to make it fit the bore and shoot accurately. Then, even IF you do get it to shoot reasonably well , IF you're hunting with them, they will NOT expand when they hit the deer. A pure round ball will expand very well at the ranges iron sighted BP rifles are used at. Using a hard ball from WW will result in a neat caliber size hole straight through. "
Quote"
There it is in all it's glory. The very worst thing said about hunting is "All you need is a hole and a .45 hole is better then a .44 hole."
I have more deer kills then anyone here and have NEVER recovered a pure ball from a deer. Penetration alone just plain sucks. I can say a .54 RB from a Hawken will dump deer in their tracks. But I would NOT shoot a WW ball.

[dondiego]

You condemn them but have never actually tried them? Interesting.