8x57 reduced loads with Lee 170 & Green Dot or 700x?

[8mmFan]

Hello everyone. I am looking to make reduced loads for my M-48A, using the Lee 170g RN with gas checks. I've been reading through the posts relating to reduced loads and find a lot of great info for loads using 3031, 2400, Red Dot, etc., but I don't have any of those powders on hand. What I do have is Green Dot, 700x, IMR 4350 and 4064. Am looking to load up inexpensive practice loads for 100- and 200-yards (longest distance available at our range). Just looking for starting loads with the powders I have and any experiences that you want to share. Thanks, 8mmFan.

P.S. Was surprised at how far out I have to seat this bullet to be just off the lands in this rifle. Will have to seat it far off the lands just to have at least a bullet-width's amount of the bullet back in the case neck.

[Hamish]

My old Lyman manual states: (168 gr. 323470GC)

GD 11.0-15.0 grains. 1405-1710 fps

700X. 10.0-14.0 grains. 1360-1655

I think you will like the way they both shoot once you find the sweet spot.

[8mmFan]

My old Lyman manual states: (168 gr. 323470GC)

GD 11.0-15.0 grains. 1405-1710 fps

700X. 10.0-14.0 grains. 1360-1655

I think you will like the way they both shoot once you find the sweet spot.

Thanks, Hamish!! JUST what i was looking for.
What old manual do you have? I have both the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Ed., and the Lyman Reloading Handbook 49th Ed. Neither lists either powder for what I refer to as my "323 Mauser Magnum."

Very much appreciated! 8mmFan

[Hamish]

Attachment 139648

1973 second edition.

Happy to help, caught my attention as I'm working up loads for the NOE 325008 at the moment with those two powders.

[LAGS]

The Lyman #3 shows what you are looking for.
181 Gr Boolit.
GD 11.0 to 15.0
700x 10 to 14.0

[8mmFan]

THIS is what makes the internet, and Cast Boolits especially, SO awesome!

As of this morning, I had no load data for what I was trying to do, as mentioned above. Thanks to Hamish, who took the time to post the above info, I was able to do the following reloading work, all in 30 minutes after church.
A) Put my six-year-old reloading partner/son to work neck-sizing some old fired R-P cases.
B) Get out an oooooold can of opened Green Dot.
C) Go to the Lee Dippers
D) Fire up the RCBS scale
E) Prime said cases
F) Measure in 11-, 12-, 13-, 14-, and 15-grain loads of Green dot into 4-cartridge sets. (why four loads per set? No reason, just that's all the R-P cases I had immediately available.
G) Put said reloading partner to work seating the boolits, depth of which was determined the other day with a Stony Point OAL gauge. Which he observed.
H) Head for range with above reloads, and his Savage Rascal .22

While he shot his .22, I tested the reloads at 100 yards. Hopefully I can post the picture below. I was THRILLED. To sum it up, the 13g and 14g GD loads are upper right, and lower right respectively. I'd say about 1.5 MOA at 100 yards. The 11g and 12g were not good, and neither was the 15g load, ALTHOUGH THAT WAS WITH S&B CASES.

In short: THANK YOU, HAMISH. Thanks for helping me get a super plinking load (at least the beginnings of one) started, and thanks for responding with great info so fast. I really hope that other hobbies everywhere have the same type of awesome enthusiasts that we enjoy in the world of CAST BOOLITS!! 8mmFan

[8mmFan]

Thanks LAGS.

[8mmFan]

Hmmm... Looking at the photo, it should be turned one quarter turn to the right. S'pose it's more like 2 MOA. But it's at 100 yds. Not bad at all in my book for a first reduced load. My son and I figured up it's costing maybe $3 per box of 20 at current component prices.

[hc18flyer]

Can I safely use 11-15 grains of GD with my 326471 plain base at 220 grains weight? Been using 12.5 Trail Boss. Thanks, Flyer

[Hamish]

You have certainly made my week,,,,,,,,thanks very much!

I wonder how they would fly if you plain based that mold in a drill press?

[8mmFan]

You have certainly made my week,,,,,,,,thanks very much!

I wonder how they would fly if you plain based that mold in a drill press?

Heck, you made my SUMMER, Hamish!! I'm going to be shooting all summer long for what I figure is between $2.50 to $3 per BOX OF 20!! Thank you, again! I am going to chrono these loads at some point. Calling Lee tomorrow to get the ballistic coefficient for the bullet and plot a trajectory when I get the velocity. Also going to work up the loads at 15, 16, maybe 17g of GD watching all the time for pressure signs and accuracy drop off, but in the R-P cases. The S&B cases on the 15g load didn't work out that well, and I wonder if it was the case or the powder charge. Have to test to find out. Will also test at 200 yds. MAN, was I happy to have a cheap practice load!

Now, as far as drilling out the mold with a drill press, I have no idea what that would be or entail. I do have a drill press but don't know how to use it. Yep, I am John Menard's fantasy come true: the non-mechanical guy who buys every tool at Menard's that comes up "on sale" over a long period of time. Only thing I don't have is a table saw because I know to leave well enough alone: don't want to look down and see half of four of my fingers scattered across the garage floor. As somebody somewhere said: "A man's got to know his limitations."

Thanks again, Hamish. I'll post results as they come available.

[8mmFan]

I shot another round yesterday, using only the precisely measured 13g and 14g loads of Green Dot, as those two were the most accurate last weekend. I also loaded up 16 loads using just a 1.6cc Lee Powder Dipper and no scale. Those loads were approximately 12.7-13g of Green Dot on the couple that I randomly measured.

The only variation from last week was that these bullets all had an aluminum gas check as opposed to copper (I used some of each when I made the bullets a couple of years ago).

This time the groups opened up quite a bit. The best four-shot group was about 2.5 MOA at 100 yards; the worst about 6. I know it wasn't the rifle: I also shot a three round group with my (very, very HOT) hunting load of 4064 and a 180g Nosler BT jacketed bullet, and that was a tiny cloverleaf--as usual--at 100 yards. This is my M48A with a Leupold 3x9 scope mounted on it.

The day's best group was actually a four-shot group at 200 yards, fired with the Lee-dipped loads. It was about a five-inch group. I am thinking that this group was a fluke.

My only conclusion is that this bullet/load in this gun does not like aluminum gas checks. Too bad because I have a bunch of 'em! And the Hornady's cost an arm and a leg even with copper prices in the cellar. I may still look for some Hornady's though.

I'll keep experimenting. The fun of shooting this rifle with very little recoil at such a reduced cost is out of this world. Also, this is the best way I've discovered for getting my young shooters light-kicking practice loads when they grow into their .243's.

8mmFan

[Terryrm1-03]

Congrats to you! I just got a 8MM military. Been shooting 12.5 grs BDot. 185 GC.
Its a blast to shoot, and have 8lbs of GD to play with it.

[jugulater]

this may not be relative to the original question but it may be helpful to someone.

i shoot a 1903 Turk converted to 8x57 with plainbase boolits from a NOE Mould, i forget the exact mould # but it throws a .326 190grn boolit. i find this boolit ahead of 9grn of 700x is very accurate and fun to shoot.

[8mmFan]

this may not be relative to the original question but it may be helpful to someone.

i shoot a 1903 Turk converted to 8x57 with plainbase boolits from a NOE Mould, i forget the exact mould # but it throws a .326 190grn boolit. i find this boolit ahead of 9grn of 700x is very accurate and fun to shoot.

Thanks! Very relevant. There's no reason that I could not start a 175g boolit at 9g of 700x then.

[jugulater]

a 175grn boolit with a gascheck would shoot fine with 9grn of 700x. my experience is that 9grn of 700x is my accurate load with my plainbase loads. with a gaschecked boolit you could probably work up a higher load.

the 8x57 is a great cast boolit cartridge. my Turk is my second best cast boolit gun, its follows right behind my 1891 Argentine.

[curator]

I have tried this boolit with 700x, Green Dot, Red Dot, Win231,and Unique in my M48A. I never got the accuracy I desired and leading was an issue even sized to .3255 and BHN20. Moving to 16 grains of Alliant 2400 was the trick. At least my rifle wanted the slower burning powder. Seating the boolit out to touch the lands is a big help in getting uniform velocities with reduced loads

[8mmFan]

I have tried this boolit with 700x, Green Dot, Red Dot, Win231,and Unique in my M48A. I never got the accuracy I desired and leading was an issue even sized to .3255 and BHN20. Moving to 16 grains of Alliant 2400 was the trick. At least my rifle wanted the slower burning powder. Seating the boolit out to touch the lands is a big help in getting uniform velocities with reduced loads

Curator, I am just curious: did you have a gas check on your bullet when you had the leading problems? I am using one, partially because I thought that a gas check scrapes the lead out of the barrel. 8mmFan

[jugulater]

the Gascheck prevents high pressure gasses from coming in contact with lead.

i use a long 190grn boolit that has a ton of lube grooves. it fits the throat of my gun very well, this is important for my gun because it has suffered from some throat erosion during its 50 years of service in the Ottoman/turkish army. i have no leading and can expect atleast 2 1/2in groups at 100 yards. for size my boolit is slightly over .326 unsized, and thats how i shoot it.

i water quench all of of my plainbase boolits, and they are casted from my usual mystery metal that i think is made up of wheelweights with some tin added.

if I remember correctly the Lee 175 is a bore rider design. if you have leading with it maybe you need to switch to a non-bore rider design? im not entirely sure on how the throat could effect the performance of specific boolit designs but it is worth a look, ill have to get me some of those lee 175 style boolits.

[runfiverun]

it does only if it fills the barrel enough to do so.