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Thread: Cast 8x57 Full house/Hunting loads IMR4895

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy zubrato's Avatar
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    Cast 8x57 Full house/Hunting loads IMR4895

    I have previously worked up IMR3031 for a Lee 175 (casts at 186-188 gas checked) to 37gr very accurate and love the recoil but am looking to work up a different load since I have not been able to find 3031. So knowing IMR4895 is a great powder from previous reading, i was wondering if you guys had any personal favorite hunting or full power loads with chrono info.
    I do have load books (not lyman cast, tho soon to be fixed) but I am looking for accuracy nodes and maybe some chrono data
    Recycle, Reuse, Reload.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master hc18flyer's Avatar
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    I am curious about your 3031 load? My brother's M- 24/47 really likes the Lee 175 and SR4759 but my supply of that is limited. I do have IMR 3031. I am using H4895 with the NOE 326471, but not 'full house' in my M-48. Flyer

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    I have used the IMR3031 in the 8mm with both 175 Lee and a 216 NOE.
    I am working up loads with H4895 right now.
    I dont see why you can use the IMR 4895 and start low and work up a load similar to the H4895.
    Both powders are Close but not exact.
    BUT, All surpluss rifles are not equal also.
    So it is best that you work up loads for your rifle anyway, and not just use a recipe for someone elses Hotter load in your rifle.
    The Lyman #4 lists both 3031 and H4895 data.
    Each one of my mausers like a different powder or boolit depending on the barrel , Headspace Throat and all the other factors.
    The vary greatly between the rifles that I have not Re Built and corrected minor varriences . ( IE Setting the barrel back and re reaming the chamber to correct headspace and freebore issues )

  4. #4
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    .............This may not help you very much but it might give you some ideas Maybe 10 years ago or so we used to do a lot of Group Buy moulds with Lee. After reading a few articles by Paul Mathews concerning his work with heavy for size 30 cal cast boolits (Blunt noses, wide drive bands and narrow shallow lube grooves) I decided to give it a try and designed one to be put up in a Lee SC set of blocks for an 8mm boolit which weighed 240grs.



    The result is the one in the middle. The Lee on the right was also a GB copy of the factory Lee 8mm but designed fatter. Both were aimed at the plethora of surplus 8x57's which were all over the market at the time. These being the Turks, Russian capture K98's, and the various other European 8x57 bolt actions, so it dropped a boolit of about .326" OD. After the moulds were done and distributed to the various subscribers and I'd worked with it for awhile, for some reason the need to shoot it at 2300 fps floated through my noggin, which escapes me at the moment.

    I had several Turkish Mauser type rifles one of which was a model M38/46 which I suspect was the Turkish version of the German K98.



    It's actually a very nice rifle in very good condition. In hindsight I would have been better off using one of the 29" bbl'd M1938's then this one with it's 24" bbl. I'd have reached the 2300 fps goal a bit sooner with the longer barrel, and saved myself a bit of personal wear and tear in the process.

    One of the best surplus powders around at the time was WC852 ball, and the slow lot. This is what I used as I had quite a bit of experience with it, and it was a mild mannered and predictable propellant. This hasn't been available for some time. There was also a faster lot that was similar to H380 (actually a bit slower then that). Since it's NLA there isn't much use in my typing in the charges. All of the loads utilized Winchester GREX (their shotshell buffer which is also NLA as a component) as a filler over the charge. After dumping the charges, the case was filled with GREX and then the boolit was seated compressing the filler.

    Velocities started out around 1600 fps. I'd loaded 5 rounds for each charge. The boolit lube was some high temp hard green stuff one of the members here had acquired a bunch of. He gifted some in my direction. Not having a heated lube-size press I had to use the wife's blow dryer to heat the press to get the lube to flow. Whatever the lube was it certainly did it's job. Without checking my load info notebooks I don't recall offhand the BHN of the lead alloy but it wasn't as hard as lino. In any event the test was successful and accuracy remained very useable up to the 2300 fps targeted goal. There was one issue however and that was I ended up with a slight crack in the wrist of the stock due to the action trying to walk back through it! Actually a symptom of poor factory bedding, that was easily repaired and remedied.

    .................Buckshot
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  5. #5
    Boolit Master




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    My heavy load for 8x57 hunting uses the LEE Karabiner Mold with its 200gr gas-checked flatnose design. I pair it up with 36gr of WC844 (milsurp H335-10% load data) in cutdown 30-06 winchester brass. Velocity is at 2025fps out of my Yugo 48. Accuracy with iron sights is 4" at 100 yards. More than tight enough and heavy enough to drop a deer and probably anything else on the North American continent.
    I Cast my Boolits, Therefore I am Happy.
    Bona Fide member of the Jeff Brown Hunt Club

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

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    My 8mm load is the Lee Karibiner, my mold casts at around 235gr over 35gr of H4895. Velocity is right at 1,850fps and is rather accurate in my Spanish '98.

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy zubrato's Avatar
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    My sincerest apologies for not getting back to this thread earlier, business trip to NY for a few days and I forgot about this. I'm reading through a lot of the responses and I thank everyone for sharing their knowledge. I still dont have the Lyman cast manual, but I will be going out in a week and hope to work out loads soon. can anyone give me a safe min/max load for a Lee 175gr GC with IMR 4895? I can't seem to find info for it in my 2nd Lee Manual.
    My Lee boolits drop at around 188-189 Gas checked, lubed heavily twice with LLA and sized to .325

    I will heed your warning carefully and check the stock for cracks and any signs of damage, I really wouldnt want to take away from the rifles authenticity, it's a german k98 from 1939 and no russian capture marks. it isnt a matching bolt but a lot of other things match and its in damn good condition.

    I dont want to hot rod it, just replicate the original load to replace purchasing corrosive 8mm

    I will be reading and rereading this thread for more info, and again thank you to everyone who participated
    Recycle, Reuse, Reload.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master hc18flyer's Avatar
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    Lyman CB - 4th edition lists H4895 and the Lee C324-175-1R
    35.0 start= 1670 fps
    41.5 max=2194 fps
    2.830 OAL
    *** IMR is very close to H, use starting load and work up. Flyer

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Buy the corrosive stuff.
    Thear it down and use the powder and boolits in reloadable cases .
    That way you are getting away from the Corrosive Primer.
    You can even use a JSP bullet of the same weight with the surplus powder.
    But, Please work your loads up from a 10% reduction any time you change components.

    BTW
    save those old Berdan cases and primers.
    Then load them up with cast boolits and something like Unique for practice / Plinking loads and just remember to clean your barrel out with Hot water when you are finished shooting.
    shooting Corrosive primed stuff at the range and close to home is way better than if you use it on a hunting trip, where you dont have All you proper cleaning stuff at hand.
    Plus the Primers are the first thing that goes bad or is inconsistant in surplus ammo.
    But those primers are still good enough for cast boolit loads, and who cares if you have a Missfire when punching paper or tin cans.
    But if you had one mis fire when shooting at a Deer, could be un-nerving.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master UBER7MM's Avatar
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    Warning on the mil-surplus stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by LAGS View Post
    Buy the corrosive stuff.
    Thear it down and use the powder and boolits in reloadable cases ......
    I had some mil-surplus ammo that the necks were annealed, I pulled one to weight the powder charge and bullet. I then attempted to re-seat the FMJ bullet. The neck folded in on itself and the brass was unusable.

    I hope this helps,
    Uber7mm

    Bambi: The great American hunting story as told through the eyes of the antagonist.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    My best 8mm Cast Boolit is the Lyman #323471 215 grain semi-spitzer ahead of 25 grains of IMR4198. In my M48A, 98k, Radom and M43, I need to set the rear sight to "500" for point of aim/point of impact at 100 yards. My groups average 2" to 3" and the load clocks about 1,800 fps and kills deer.

    Adam

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy zubrato's Avatar
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    Quick update:
    worked up loads for IMR 4895 from 35gr to 40gr, and got exactly the results I wanted. 40 gr Shoots 2-3 inches high under 50 yard, and gets about 3 inch groups with iron sights at 100yds. has the speed I want, with a lot less recoil than 37gr imr3031. a slower burning powder was just the ticket.
    sorry, no chrono. leaves thumb sized holes in quarter inch steel at 150 yards
    no pressure signs, and it burns clean
    Recycle, Reuse, Reload.

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy
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    I use 33 grains of imr 4198 in my Yugo mauser under the saeco 190gr, pc. shoots well and hits hard. good load.

  14. #14
    Boolit Man motorcycle_dan's Avatar
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    To Buckshot mostly but others feel free to chime in. Shooting old Mil-surp rifles. In 8x57 with a 0.323 bore. What size do you size to? Looking at the lyman sizers I have the choice of .323 or .325 (I would have chosen .324 thinking a thou over bore would be desireable)

    When seating lead bullets do you as the picture indicates leave that much of the bullet sticking out of the case? How do you keep dust etc from contaminating the lube in the grooves? You always seat out that far? Just so the nose touches the beginning of the rifling. On Bore rider bullets where it rides just the bore (not groove diameter) except for the lubed driving bands how do you seat them? I bought an old cheap Lyman 450 sizer luber at a yard sale and going about rebuilding it for use with old military surplus cast bullets.
    Dan, A fast bullseye shooter or slow action pistol shooter.

  15. #15
    Boolit Man motorcycle_dan's Avatar
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    There was a guy on this list that made sizing dies for different lube sizers. Can someone direct me to a link?
    Dan, A fast bullseye shooter or slow action pistol shooter.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master hc18flyer's Avatar
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    I shoot the NOE 326471 in my Yugo 48. I size to .325 and don't lube all the grooves. I do seat them to .005 off the lands, which shoots very well. I am working my way up with H4895, have a bunch to test over my brothers chrono. I haven't seen any issues with my .325 sizing. Flyer

  17. #17
    Boolit Master UBER7MM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motorcycle_dan View Post
    To Buckshot mostly but others feel free to chime in. Shooting old Mil-surp rifles. In 8x57 with a 0.323 bore. What size do you size to? Looking at the lyman sizers I have the choice of .323 or .325 (I would have chosen .324 thinking a thou over bore would be desireable)

    When seating lead bullets do you as the picture indicates leave that much of the bullet sticking out of the case? How do you keep dust etc from contaminating the lube in the grooves? You always seat out that far? Just so the nose touches the beginning of the rifling. On Bore rider bullets where it rides just the bore (not groove diameter) except for the lubed driving bands how do you seat them? I bought an old cheap Lyman 450 sizer luber at a yard sale and going about rebuilding it for use with old military surplus cast bullets.
    Generally .002" over groove works fine. So a .325" for a .323" is common. Slug your bore for verification.
    You should have decades of good service with that Lyman 450.

    Enjoy,
    Uber7mm

    Bambi: The great American hunting story as told through the eyes of the antagonist.

  18. #18
    Boolit Man motorcycle_dan's Avatar
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    Yeah, I got it for a song. But the lead screw was broken at the bottom. I have a buddy w new tig welder and thought weld repair. Then I was looking on Lyman's site for the o-rings. For $18 I could buy a whole new pressure assembly. (it is on the way) I scraped all the old dried lube I could from the cast body. Then plunked it for the night in my mineral spirits parts cleaner tank. Softened things up and a little brushing got it clear. Officially calling it "rebuilt"
    Dan, A fast bullseye shooter or slow action pistol shooter.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master


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    Milsurp! New shooters seem afraid of corrosive cartridges. Must be the Metro sexual thing. Clean the bore with Water, twice in 2 days and then clean as usual for today. Give me a break corrosive is nothing to be afraid of unless you are a stupid shooter as many have been.

    Many 75 years ago were the same.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
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LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
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