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Thread: Hakim 8mm cast bullet load?

  1. #1
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    Hakim 8mm cast bullet load?

    I'm trying to work up a load for my Hakim 8mm Mauser, but I cannot seem to get one that reliably cycles the gun. Even with loads that are a little warmer than I'd like with cast bullets.

    The bullet I'm using is the LEE 175gr LRN, and the gas system on the gun is wide open. What are you Hakim owners using?

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
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    Given that the FMJ military load of the era was 196gn, I suspect you're too light on the bullet weight. Try going 200gn or points northwards.

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    I can give that a try. I've been meaning to get one of LEE's 205gr .329" molds for my Steyr anyways. I can just size it down for 8mm Mauser and see how it does.

    Thanks.

  4. #4
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    Hakim brass - when fired - does your gun ding it up?

    I shoot a 202 gr (311299) in my AR and M-1A. 37 grains H414 with a magnum primer. The heavier bullet helps the semi a little more. Especially the Hakim...ever get you finger between the bolt and .....I have been close

    Geoff in Oregon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunor View Post
    Hakim brass - when fired - does your gun ding it up?

    I shoot a 202 gr (311299) in my AR and M-1A. 37 grains H414 with a magnum primer. The heavier bullet helps the semi a little more. Especially the Hakim...ever get you finger between the bolt and .....I have been close

    Geoff in Oregon
    It dings them up a little, and I have been especially careful to avoid the dreaded "Hakim thumb"

    Thanks for the tip.

  6. #6
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    Kinda wish I hadn't got rid of the Hakim I had, but at the time didn't cast, or reload for 8mm. Bought it at an auction with the intention of using the pile of cheap turkish stuff I had, oh yea they don't like that hot ammo.

  7. #7
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    There used to be a bumper on the holder people use as a handle. I picked up a thick piece of tubing from the auto store and wrapped it with some black electrical tape arount the post and bingo, brass bumper, and no more dented brass. I also filed a few notches in the gas port top to make a little more adjustability so not to be so abbusive to the brass.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master blixen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quickdraw66 View Post
    I can give that a try. I've been meaning to get one of LEE's 205gr .329" molds for my Steyr anyways. I can just size it down for 8mm Mauser and see how it does. .
    i use that boolit, sized down to .327, in my Yugo mauser with great accuracy.

    years ago I passed on a Hakim. Shoulda, coulda, woulda.

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I was trying to find a load for my Hakim.
    Never found anything that I liked.
    I put it aside for the time being.
    Seems to me that gas semi autos don't like cast boolets.
    SKS, Garand, M1 Carbine, worked fine.
    I also have a Rashid. It is a gas semi auto like the Hakim.
    It works fine with cast boolets.
    Some day I'll get back to the Hakim.

  10. #10
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    I think the difficulty with the Hakim is that the conventional approach with a semiauto such as a .30-06 or a .308 is difficult to achieve. Normally, you go for a much heavier bullet than normal (200 vs 150 for the two cases mentioned, or 150 instead of 123 for the 7.62x39) to keep the velocity down while still getting enough pressure to run the gas system.

    But the service load for a Hakim is already 196gn. So with a conventional 8mm cast bullet of around 200gn, you've got to be running it damn close to service FMJ velocities to get enough pressure. Doable, but not optimal.

    NOE do a 242gn bullet that might work at a sensible velocity though.

  11. #11
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    Midsouth still carries the Karbiner and Maximum molds. They have blunt flat noses, so it may be a gamble as to whether they feed well or not. But they don't cost much. Good luck.

    http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.co...roduction-Mold

    http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.co...roduction-Mold

  12. #12
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    Someday I'll get back to playing with loads for it.
    I have the Midsouth Lee molds. Haven't tried them in the Hakim yet.

    As a rule of thumb, do gas guns work better with fast, medium, or slow burn powders?????

  13. #13
    Boolit Master 1johnlb's Avatar
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    My semi autos like medium to slow powders. Medium speeds like 4895 and depending on the weight of boolit. Generally faster for lighter boolits and slower for heavier ones. Getting the action to cycle should be just a matter of getting the right amount of pressure to the port at the right time.

    I'm currently looking at a Hakim on a LGS wall and contemplating on getting it, the bore and all is full of cosmoline. I'm going to try and get him to clean the bore to see if it's worth his price. So I have been watching this thread closely because all I shoot is lead cast.

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    I went ahead and ordered a LEE 215gr Karabiner mold. From what I've read, they don't drop anywhere near 215grs. They seem to drop at around 230-240gr, so that should work great. I've got IMR4320 and IMR4350 to play with. Any suggestions on a load for that beast of a bullet?

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    If it was me and it's not, so be your own judge and be careful, I would start about 60% case fill with 4350 and a dacron tuff until I got operation or could no longer keep the rounds on the paper or pressure problems occur. 60 % should, again be your own judge, be in the range of 25 to 28 grs.

    With 4320 I would do the same except starting at about a 50% or half case charged and a dacron tuff.

    Make sure your operating rod isn't stuck from rust or cosmoline and working properly.

    And above all else be safe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1johnlb View Post
    If it was me and it's not, so be your own judge and be careful, I would start about 60% case fill with 4350 and a dacron tuff until I got operation or could no longer keep the rounds on the paper or pressure problems occur. 60 % should, again be your own judge, be in the range of 25 to 28 grs.

    With 4320 I would do the same except starting at about a 50% or half case charged and a dacron tuff.

    Make sure your operating rod isn't stuck from rust or cosmoline and working properly.

    And above all else be safe.
    I'll have to look into that and see how it compares to published loads.

    As for the operating rod, there isn't one. Its a DI system.

    Thanks

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by quickdraw66 View Post
    I'll have to look into that and see how it compares to published loads.

    As for the operating rod, there isn't one. Its a DI system.

    Thanks
    What powders a loads have you tried so far?

    Then make sure theirs no blockages n the tube, if you haven't shot it yet.
    Your probably not going to find 4350 because it's slow for caliber. The 8 mm bore is going to have a harder time building pressures later in the bore, thus taking heavier boolits and slower powders to maintain pressure while keeping velocity low enough for fast twist bores and maintaining accuracy.

    It all just a guess until you pull the trigger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1johnlb View Post
    What powders a loads have you tried so far?

    Then make sure theirs no blockages n the tube, if you haven't shot it yet.
    Your probably not going to find 4350 because it's slow for caliber. The 8 mm bore is going to have a harder time building pressures later in the bore, thus taking heavier boolits and slower powders to maintain pressure while keeping velocity low enough for fast twist bores and maintaining accuracy.

    It all just a guess until you pull the trigger.
    The tube is clear.

    I've tried IMR4320 at near jacketed starting charges with a 175 gr cast bullet. It would sometimes cycle the bolt, and sometime cycle it just enough for the brass to exit the chamber but not far enough back to eject properly.

    Obviously I'd like to get it working without loading it that hot.

  19. #19
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    I can understand that.
    A heavier boolit would definitely be my next step, too.

    4350 may just surprise you. Understanding pressure curves and peak pressure points make load development for auto much easier. Slower powders build peak pressures later and the closer you can get the peak to the port the better your cycling will be.

    So you kind of have to find that balance between boolit weight, burn rate and load. Thinking about getting the one from my LGS today, sounds like a good project. I sold my m48 yugo and still have everything I need to load for it.
    Last edited by 1johnlb; 05-21-2015 at 01:44 AM.

  20. #20
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    Thanks for the advice.

    They are very well made guns. High levels of accuracy are not uncommon, and mine has the best trigger I have ever felt on a milsurp. They are LOUD though.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check