Lee KAR mold up to 0.330 for 8x56R Hungarian

[DonMountain]

I have always wanted to try paper patching boolets but have not done so yet. I have an 8x56R Hungarian straight-pull rifle that I have used J-word bullets from Grafs (Hornady branded) that measure 0.330" that shoot quite well in the rifle. I also have the Lee KAR mold that casts a 0.324" boolet that I use in a normal 8mm Mauser rifle. So I thought maybe it could be paper patched up to the 0.332" I need for this 8x56R rifle. Using the guidelines on here and the instructions in the Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook #3 I patched one of the Lee boolets using some lined note book paper that measured 0.002" in thickness. The paper was real mushy and hard to wrap and tore real easy, but after a few trials I got a few looking good as for dimensions. After they dried overnight, I miked them and they measured 0.328" in diameter, so I figure I need a little thicker paper. So, I figure now its a planned trip to the store to get some real paper suitable for paper patching that will add about 0.008" to the boolet diameter when applied and dried. After reading the stickys and all and seeing notes about not getting paper with clay in it, I am not sure what the real specifications should be for purchased paper. I see references to the old fashioned green/white bar printer paper that they used to use in the old days a long time ago. I haven't seen any of that in lots of years. So, can anybody refer me to specifications for paper I can get at WalMart or one of those Office Depot stores we have in town that might fit? And what to look for in composition?

[CJR]

DonMountain,

Try some, "Mead Academie Tracing Paper", 40 sheet pad, medium weight, acid-free & lignin-free. Make up some PPCB samples with 2 wraps and 3 wraps , dry, and mike the final diameters.

Best regards,

CJR

[DonMountain]

DonMountain,

Try some, "Mead Academie Tracing Paper", 40 sheet pad, medium weight, acid-free & lignin-free. Make up some PPCB samples with 2 wraps and 3 wraps , dry, and mike the final diameters.

Best regards,

CJR

Thank you very much for the start to this "paper patching" newby. Do you have any suggestions for lubing the paper patch? Can I just smear some warmed stick lube that I use for normal cast lead boolets? Or would LEE smear on lube work?

[CJR]

Don Mountain,

Re; lube. Depends on what velocity you're trying to achieve. I'd suggest you start at low velocity (2200fps) and work up to high velocity(3000+fps). Try Alox, LBT lubes etc. to start and check your PP survival at the range by dry nylon brushing the barrel after so many rounds fired. Hard brush resistance in front of the chamber indicates a cut PP while PPCB chambering. Hard brush resistance mid-barrel indicates the PP is slipping off the CB. Hard brush resistance near the muzzle indicates the PPCB is almost making it to muzzle. Once you achieve PP survival to the muzzle, you can shoot all day with periodic dry brushing, every so many rounds, to remove the normal powder residue buildup.

As you increase the velocity, you can toughen the PP with solutions of Carpenters glue(PVA) + water to improve PP survival. Enjoy the journey! You will succeed. Perseverance is the key. My interest is in accurate hivel. My son and I have achieved very accurate 3000+fps PPCB loads and hunting PPCB load accuracy at 3200+fps. All, I might add, with standard factory rifles, i.e. no custom rifles or barrels. When you achieve subMOA groups at 100yds, believe me you will be stunned. Our PPCB groups are smaller than our best match jacketed groups. The PPCB results are worth the effort when you realize a box of 100 match jacketed bullets is approaching $50.

Best regards,

CJR

[wmitty]

You might want to try Ben's Liquid lube for a patch lubricant. You also might want to try patching your boolets dry and twisting the tails and then submerging in water to obtain patch shrinkage. Allow patches to dry and run the boolit thru a push thru sizer to fit rifle's throat.

[DonMountain]

Ok, I got some of that tracing paper and will run some trials tonight to see what I can do with it. So, are paper patches supposed to be lubed or left dry for loading?

[CJR]

Don Mountain,

Some additional points to consider. Regardless of whether you wet PP or dry PP, there is one step you should do. Determine what your bore and groove diameters are. Your CB should be initially sized to bore diameter plus 0.001-0.0015". After the PPCB enters the rifling, the PP will be sized down to your rifle's groove diameter, but the CB must still remain as initially sized or accuracy will suffer. So, if your final PPCB diameter is larger (i.e. dry PP) than your rifle's groove it is possible that the CB will be sized down below the bore diameter. Various types of papers compress(when dry) or shrink(when wet) differently, so you need to determine what YOUR paper is doing to YOUR CB diameter. CBs under bore size plus 0.001"-0.0015" rattle back and forth or tilt as they travel down the bore- not good for accuracy.

What I do with my PP, is final size to my groove diameter (as recommended by the NRA). Then I peel off the PP on a few of my PPCB, with my fingernail, and mike the CB diameter to make sure my CB diameter is still as initially sized. Obviously, it takes a couple days after wet patching for the PP to shrink down in diameter and stabilize at a final diameter. If I final size my wet patched CB too early, before PP shrinkage has stabilized, the CB can be sized down below my initial sized diameter of the CB.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,

CJR

[wmitty]

CJR

How hard of an alloy are you using?

[dualsport]

The Cast Bullet Association has a magazine, published 6 times a year. Latest two issues had full length articles on paper patching including a lot of work saving info and tricks, specs for patch dimensions, etc.

[CJR]

wmitty,

I was using what I thought to be 13BHN WQWW. My initial random sample of CB hardness, tested with a LBT hardness tester, showed a hardness of 13BHN Then recently I did a 100% sample hardness test and found a variation in BHN.

I live on a small mountain with heavy winds and that was affecting my WQ hardness of the CB. I now have re-heat treated all my CBs in a toaster oven to get consistent hardness for my Hi-vel (3000+fps) loads. The key to heat-treating is to maintain the highest temperature, just below melting/slump, followed by a rapid WQ. Lessons learned. We'll see how they perform this week at 3200+fps(300H&H). Talk about fun!

Best regards,

CJR

[DonMountain]

CJR

How hard of an alloy are you using?

I don't know about the hardness as I don't have a hardness tester. It is all made from Wheel Weights and is the only alloy I have. And not much of that left.

[semtav]

Don
Did you ever get this load to shoot? was curious what powder you are using as I am about to start working up loads of my 8X52 SM.