Polish P-64 Perfect Pocket Pistol

[kbstenberg]

Tonight I pulled the trigger on a P64 at Buds.
I also called Al at NOE asking about a 9x18 mold. He said that he had started a thread on his sight but it didn't go anywhere. Would any of you here be interested in a mold from him?
Now I have to go to Titen and order dies and a lee mold.

[gloob]

Nope. I was determined to shoot cast in my 9x18s. So I did, for awhile.

Consider the problems. Mak and 9x19 cases are annoying to sort from each other. Blowback pistols are hard to shoot cast without a lot of smoke. And I don't end up shooting these pocket pistols that much when I can shoot other calibers with larger magazines and lower recoil and which don't need cleaning every outing. My foray into Mak reloading was short lived.

[RobsTV]

The only issue I had with cast boolits in the P-64 is sizing. Drop too large here to chamber. No retailer makes a sizing die. Would need to either enlarge a .358 or order a custom die.

Smoke is no different than any other caliber using W231/HP38. Also shoot blowback 9mm and 40 S&W, and again, no different than locked breech versions as far as smoke. Separating for 9mm and 380 already, so not an issue finding the cases in between. But as a rule, only use "nickel" 9mm cases cut down, and never use nickel with 380 or 9mm. And always make them with a sharpie.

[W.R.Buchanan]

As far as the DA trigger pull is concerned you have to develop a staging technique, where you pull the trigger most of the way thru and then finalize your sight alignment then break the shot.

I do this with all my DA/SA guns and always have. I learned it from Jerry Miculek. They tried to train me out of it at Front Sight as they wanted a clean pull thru, but nobody can hit anything like that and staging is not that hard to learn. The gun helps with this as the trigger let off point becomes pretty obvious after you play with the gun for a while.

The CZ82 is particularly easy to stage, but I'd carry it Cocked and Locked instead.

Randy

[gloob]

Smoke is no different than any other caliber using W231/HP38. Also shoot blowback 9mm and 40 S&W, and again, no different than locked breech versions as far as smoke.

That's good to know. I have never, personally, been able to shoot cast in a revolver or a blowback without noticeable smoke.

When I shot my cast loads out of my P64 at the indoor range, I had a couple inquiries as to what kind of relic I was shooting. It was embarrassing. I can mag dump my cast loads out of my G19, and I would only notice any smoke at all when I was specifically looking for it.

The only two powders I had at the time were Unique and HP38, and I don't remember which one I used, but whichever one it was, I recall loading about 4 grains behind a commercial 100 grain cast bullet.

Come to think of it, back then I didn't know about using custom expanders for cast bullets. I bet I had a metric ton of bullet swaging in my cut down 9mm cases.

[opos]

I have a UI70 Russian Makarov and a Bulgarian...both in 9mm Mak...really enjoy those little blow backs and they are reliable and almost impossible to hurt...if you want a real laugh look at Makarov torture test on you tube...amazing.

https://youtu.be/IAEbbhRJNYw

[MtGun44]

Pulling straight through is easy to hit with a normal trigger. . . . . not so much
for a 25-30 lb pull!!

[Petrol & Powder]

I can shoot DA pretty well but a 25 pound DA is out of my ball park.

[kfarm]

You lucky dog getting one with a 25 lb hair trigger. I got one of widners c&r several years ago they had a real mans trigger.

[Petrol & Powder]

What's that trigger bar made from? Must be some strong stuff !

[bouncer50]

I can shoot DA pretty well but a 25 pound DA is out of my ball park.

The Wolf spring kit will reduce it a lot. I have two of the P-64 it really helps the trigger pull.

[gloob]

The P64 might be better off as a SA, for the two reasons. DA trigger sucks. And you need to use the safety, anyway. See post #30, if you aren't afraid of using a Dremel on a $5.00 replaceable part.

The gun can still be manually decocked, if you want to carry hammer down and safety on with a 25 lb trigger.

There's still one more safety concern I failed to mention, regarding the SA trigger. The P64 has no positive sear engagement. If you pull the trigger partway and then let go, the sear is likely to stay were you left it, rather than resetting. So keep this in mind, fellow P64 owners.

[bouncer50]

Just my opinion i really don"t like slide safety at all. I like to pull it and use the double action if i am attack. I don"t really think how bad it shoots in double action if your have to use it. I am so use to frame mounted safety like the 1911 cocked and locked. It would take time to learn the slide safety for me cause i switch guns for summer and winter. The best part of a double action auto is like a wheel gun for the first shot. I sometimes carry it in my jacket pocket and my hand on the gun in bad area. No one can see it, if i had to shoot it their be a hole in my jacket.

[gloob]

Ok, but please read post #22 for safety's sake. No pun intended, although quite appropriate.

*In addition to drop-safety, it is wise to check to make sure that the "half-cock" notch of your gun is working and undamaged any time you may have bumped or dropped the empty gun. Once it's broke, it's broke. And once it's broke, this can happen on top of a drop-fire through the noggin.

http://www.xdtalk.com/threads/accide...sh-p64.232632/

His assessment was that the gun doesn't have a half-cock notch. It does, but his was probably broken, perhaps from a previous drop in which the gun was unloaded or on safe.

A half-cock notch does not meet modern safety standards. It might work 9 times out of 10. But it's really only suitable as a backup in case the hammer slips while thumb-cocking, or if the main cocking notch fails or slips in a drop while fully cocked. Relying on a half-cock notch for drop safety is like throwing away your main chute and jumping from a plane with only a backup, only worse. The backup chute has at least a chance it will open. If you drop the P-64 just so onto a hard enough surface, the half-cock notch has no chance of holding up. It will fail, and when it does, the gun will fire 100% of the time, and when it fires, it will fire at appromately a 20-45% angle from straight up, which put the important bits of anyone within 8 or so feet (which will most usually include the guy who dropped it) in the line of fire. This would be one hell of a way to win a Darwin award or an even worse way to accidentally injure or kill another human being, whether a stranger or a loved one.

The manual safety is the only thing that makes the gun drop-safe with a loaded chamber.

[bouncer50]

You are correct sir it does have a half cock safety on the P-64. His was most likely broke as you said. This gun the P-64 is a 50 years plus old design not like today auto safety. People have to know it limits on this old girl.

[bouncer50]

Same as a 1911 on half cock can go off if drop on the hammer to.

[gloob]

Few people do, even when faced with the information. From a liability standpoint, I suppose "I didn't know" is going to be good enough on this one, since everyone seems to be oblivious. But you can't take it back if you hurt someone you care about or yourself.

Same as a 1911 on half cock can go off if drop on the hammer to.

Which is fine, because you can carry a 1911 with the hammer fully down. Or you can carry it cocked and locked. It's a SAO, so there's little point in carrying it hammer all the way down, and no point in carrying it on the half-cock notch. And in the case of the 1911, the manual safety CAN'T be applied with the hammer down or on half-cock, and it wouldn't do squat anyway, since it does not block either the hammer or the firing pin. And with the 1911, there's at least a chance the gun won't fire if the half-cock notch fails, because it's so close to fully down and the firing pin is inertial. Neither of these are the case with the P64. In the 1911 none of this matters, because if you're using the gun correctly, the half-cock notch is only there as a backup in case your thumb slips while cocking (or decocking with finger off the trigger), or if the main notch slips when the gun is dropped while cocked.

The P64 is a DA/SA, and there is no way to carry it with the hammer all the way down, even if you wanted to. The firing pin is longer than the firing pin channel. Putting the hammer down would rest the firing pin on the primer with room to spare. Fortunately, the hammer decocks to the half-cock position. And trying to manually lower the hammer all the way down with the trigger pulled (BAD IDEA) would result in the hammer automatically rebounding back to the half-cock position. This is what makes it a "rebounding" or inertial hammer. Unfortunately, this puts it in a position of hovering over the non-inertial firing pin with only a ridge of steel in the way. In a drop, peak force can be astronomical. Way more than what a metal pin and little sear and a little ridge can take. Is not same. Is not safe. Use the safety on the P64, always.

People have to know it limits on this old girl.

How does joe consumer know what the limit is, until it breaks? I know that dropping the gun from waist high while putting the gun back in the safe was enough to break one example and to put an unintended hole in one's roof and a surprise dry-cleaning bill.


IF you want to carry a P64 decocked and safety off, I would suggest you bob the hammer until NONE of the hammer is exposed in this position and it is completely enshrouded by the back of the slide by at least 3 or 4 tenths of an inch.

[bouncer50]

Now that a good idea to bob the hammer. The hammer has a big hole in it. It would not take much to cut it down. Thanks for the great idea to make it drop proof.

[jrayborn]

I modded both of mine long ago to remove the decocker. Cocked and locked is how I carry.

[superc]

The Pis not a good choice for a noise suppressor because it is a straight blow back pistol. That means some noise comes out of the ejection port as the gas pressure is still a little high when the slide moves back.

When I carry a P64 it is with the safety on. Much more important than the dropping of the hammer is that the safety also blocks the firing pin. You could bash the hammer with a sledge hammer and the gun can't go off because the blow doesn't reach the firing pin.

Yes, you need to order the Wolff springs, then play with them on the range. The mainspring is not only the hammer and trigger spring, it is also the control spring for the magazine release. If your chosen spring is too light, then it will during firing vibrate the magazine release and drop your magazine on the ground. In a fire fight that could be a bad thing. Try a slightly heavier spring until you find the one that works for your gun.

Speaking of the magazine release, there is an aftermarket one (slightly longer and easier to work in the dark) found on Ebay.

Also available aftermarket are wooden grips.

The sights on the P64 as issued are lousy. IMO the most important modification you should make to a P64 is install a fiber optic (light pipe) on the slide. It makes a big difference. I milled the old one off, used a Hi Viz shotgun sight as the replacement, and welded the screw in place from the inside (underside) of the slide for the P64 I chose to not be a safe queen. Comparison photos, sight picture.