The ZLUG Thread

[longbow]

Hogtamer:

I hear criticizm of your USPS for slow service but I can't believe how fast USPS is compared to Canada Post!

Greg Sappington sent me some stuff and it was across the continent and waiting for me in a Washington post box in something like two or maybe three days. Canada post on the other hand regularly takes two to three weeks to get a letter from Castlegar to Vancouver (about 8 hours West) or Castlegar to Calgary (about 8 hours East). It takes a week to get a letter from Castlegar to Trail (about 20 minutes South).

Their record for me was a cheque to an archery store near Calgary and it was 21 business days!!!

And the cost! I can't recall for sure what it cost me to send you the 0.678" balls but IIRC $16.00!!!! And I know I shipped some Maxi's to a friend in North Carolina and that was $16.00 for I think twenty five 370 gr. .50 cal. Maxi's.

I would trade service and cost of USPS vs Canada Post any day!

I suspect the package of lead anodes is being held up in customs before Canada Post even gets their hands on it to slowly deliver it. No doubt routed from the customs to Toronto, then Vancouver where it will sit and finally get loaded to come to Castlegar.

Frustrating it is!

Okay then, rant off... simmer down.... breathe deeply... there, I am like a hollow reed and the wind blows right through me.... aaahhhh, better.

I want those Zlugs! Mind you, if I do not have them for this weekend it will be a couple of weeks before I can load and shoot.

Good to see BB is alive and well and the zlug did real good! You guys will have testing complete before I even get mine.

Longbow

[Hogtamer]

I just got my loads boxed up to send to Tom Armbrust tomorrow. LB, just between you and me, why ya reckon BB was shooting at his barn? And he never said how long his string was!

[longbow]

Good point! I had assumed the 8" of OSB was a backstop but...? Maybe he was outside the barn when he pulled the string? A barn should contain shrapnel if the worst happened.

Since I am shooting smoothbore I shouldn't have anything to worry about.

I was just thinking about a wad to attach and remembered that my order to Will Bilozir has not been completed yet. He didn't seem to know what the special "gas seal" was that BPI is listing. A couple of those screwed onto a zlug should make a nice Brenneke style. They are 1/4" thick plastic and have a hole right through the middle (not sure how that qualifies them as a gas seal but...).

I better get hold of Will and get that order sorted out.

Longbow

[bikerbeans]

LB,

No string for the testing. The Zlugs went down the bore easier than the fullbore slugs I usually shoot so I wasn't worried about pressure. I am not expecting much in accuracy as I think my bore is way oversized for the Zlug. I can't see any engraving on the fired Zlug. My barrel has a long forcing cone and there is over an inch of jump to the rifling, maybe the Zlug is being "sized" and not rotated when I fire the gun? I will find out tomorrow at the range.

BTW, I have replacement cost insurance on my barn so I don't mind shooting at it.

BB

[cpileri]

looking forward to range report!
C-

[Greg5278]

The X12X is usually ther best Gas seal for Slugs. Maybe Your Wad Column was not sturdy enough.
Zinc is not that Hard to Load, it does not need Lube. If You need to size it, make a Die set and use a Bench Vise ot Arbor Press to push it through. It will go through fine, just put a taper before the sizing section, and a Relief cut after.
A few Thousandths of Extra won't hurt anything.

I design my Brass and Copper Slugs to have a reduced bearing Surface and Shank Diameter. The Brinell Hardness is Similar to Zinc. I make the Bullet Shank a few Thousandths smaller than the Land Diameter. The fired Slugs do not have any Marks on the Shank, unless fired in a tighter bored Gun. If Loaded up gfast some Zinc Slugs will penetrate 5/16 1018 Mild Steel Plate.

Given the weght Difference with LEad, I would stick with Middle of the Road Burn Rate powders. Unique is too Fast. Alliant Steel may give You too much Muzzle Flash. I seem to recall using IMRT 4756 for a lighter Zinc Slug, and VV340 or 350 for a heavier one.

Maybe try a BP12 or BP12 Tuff Wad for a Ribbed Sabot if Using a much smaller Zinc Slug. I seem to recall the Russians doing some thing Similar with a Steel Slug in a Ribbed Wad.
Greg
AKA 12 Bore

[longbow]

Well, I have to think that my rant on Canada Post caused a rip in the space time continuum which resulted in a time warp around Canada Post... the zlug package arrived today! This is record time I have to say. Hogtamer said he mailed it on the 1st so only 9 days across the continent and across the border. Impossible I would have said if I wasn't staring at some shiny zlugs, two beautiful knapped arrow heads and a nice book. Very generous Hal. Thank you very much. I have the Witchery of Archery by Maurice Thompson so Toxophilus in Arcadia will be a nice addition.

I do in fact have a couple of appropriate arrows made out of black locust shoots. Neither is without wobbles and small knots but when straightened they both spin around their centers as well as any dowel shaft and they shoot well. They will lose their current field points and have some nice knapped arrow heads hafted to them. Of course they will not be shot with the knapped arrow heads unless possibly at game. For now they will reside on my living room wall as art work. I will post photos.

On to the zlugs. I will not likely have time this week to get attached wads made up for them to shoot this weekend (maybe but not likely) but will certainly mic them and check fit though bores, etc. It will be a couple of weeks before they are likely to be shot and I want to do it properly. I can always make a bang but I want a bang with accuracy so will do this as best I can.

I have Blue Dot and SR4756 which should both be good powders for this weight of zlug.

Looking at the engraved zlug you sent I have to think that these would be just fine pressure wise as the engraving is quite shallow. However, best to play safe and have Tom pressure test them. I don't know what he is charging these days but I have no problem putting some money towards the testing as we are all benefiting so let me know if I can help out.

I will try to get the testing done ASAP but I have to drive my wife to Vancouver (8 hours away) next week to see a specialist and won't be back until the Saturday evening so not much time between now and then. After that I will have some time.

Again Hal, thank you for your generosity.

Longbow

[Hogtamer]

I will be thinking and praying for your wife's good health and the zlugs can wait. BTW, there is a white point in the box too, easily overlooked. May be knapped from a piece of very rare "commode stone!". And as you know, if both ends of those arrows are pointing a staight line the middle will follow!

[bikerbeans]

HT,

Was the "commode stone" mined from above or below the water line?

Zlug range trip pushed to Friday.

BB

[Greg5278]

Longbow, Maybe send Him some nice Obsidian from BC to Knap. It takes a really nice edge, and flakes well.
It comes in pretty Colors too.
Greg
AKA 12 Bore

[Blood Trail]

I have some sabots by slugrus if anyone needs to experiment with. They fit .50 cal slugs.

I contacted BPI and sent me a sample pack of gas seals. 10 each to be exact

[Hogtamer]

BT, how did those slugs shoot for you? I inquired about buying a bunch of the sabots but no volume discount at all and they were kinda pricey. Seems like you could load 'em pretty hot. Did you use their slug or a .50 cal you cast?

My Fedex to ballistic research just got picked up today, so it will be middle of next week before I can hope to get any results, prolly longer. So BB, you're carrying the ball this week. Thanks!

Greg, thanks for checking in with this, I know you've got a lot of experience with "non-traditional" loads. I wish I had thought to load a couple with Longshot and 800-X to send along, as you're right on about the muzzle flash from the Steel. Now the wait for any degree of accuracy.

[longbow]

Hogtamer:

Right you are then so another thanks!

That commode stone point is also extremely nice. It was hidden under a flap of padding (toilet paper...!?!).

Greg:

If I can find some obsidian I would be happy to send it. All we seem to have around here is quartz. I have as yet to find any form of volcanic glass.

I was working on a project for the Hanford nuclear site in Washington to vitrify nuclear waste. The result looks very much like flint or obsidian. I have a few small pieces (no, not radioactive) from test melts using simulants. A local knapper tried it and said it knapped like obsidian. (Now that I say that, I will ask where he gets his material. I do not think locally.)

Had the project continued I would have had an unlimited supply of man made volcanic glass. The basic procedure is to use high current through large graphite electrodes to melt "dirt". The preferred "dirt" is local soil that has high silica sand content. The result is molten rock much like lava that when cooled forms a flint/obsidian like glass.

However, I digress from the topic of zlugs.

I am going to try to get at least a few attached wads made up and possibly shoot this Sunday. I would like to shoot anyway, though time is limited, and I want to contribute in a timely fashion as well.

I will do the best I can.

Longbow

[Michael J. Spangler]

i had a buddy try out some Zlugs from my lee molds.
He loaded them over a charge of red dot and loved them. he said they shot flat and hit like a hammer. the plug smashed rocks on the berm and the recovered slugs look like they could be loaded again.
cool stuff

[Blood Trail]

BT, how did those slugs shoot for you? I inquired about buying a bunch of the sabots but no volume discount at all and they were kinda pricey. Seems like you could load 'em pretty hot. Did you use their slug or a .50 cal you cast?

My Fedex to ballistic research just got picked up today, so it will be middle of next week before I can hope to get any results, prolly longer. So BB, you're carrying the ball this week. Thanks!

Greg, thanks for checking in with this, I know you've got a lot of experience with "non-traditional" loads. I wish I had thought to load a couple with Longshot and 800-X to send along, as you're right on about the muzzle flash from the Steel. Now the wait for any degree of accuracy.

Brother, the blue sabots did great with almost every powder I tried. My chronograph broke and I got a new one, so the next trip out to the range, I'll document better.

However, the sabot wads from Slugsrus shot horrible out of my mossberg 835 rifled barrel. I was finding the sabots every random place you can think. I even found one about 30 yards to the right of the target I was aiming at. The holes on the target (the ones that hit) where oblong in shape. Strange. Only one load look decent. It was 34 grains of Longshot under a 350 gr XTP.

Upon further investigation, slugrus sabots aren't designed to be shot out of a ported barrel, which mine is, according to their website.

I found a website that does custom slug molds. I will order one once I can figure out (with y'all's help) on which direction to go.

I'll post pics of those slugrus wads in a few days. Headed to east Texas to kill some pigs.

[bikerbeans]

Gilda Radner was right, it's always something. The trigger on my H&R decided to fail this morning. I had the gun cooked and on target and just before I put my finger on the trigger the gun went off. Plan "B" is now in effect, a good friend is letting me borrow his H&R USH.

I did chrony two loads before the trigger failure. The gun is an H&R Tracker II with an 18.5" fully rifled barrel.

Zlug, 35 grain blue dot, 1271 fps.

Sticky extraction and a very slight bulge at the extractor notch.

Zlug, 60 grains SR 4759, chrony incorrect, 1370 fps with 24" barrel

Extraction normal and the hull looked fine.

I know two data points are close to useless. From past testing I would expect 100 to 200 fps velocity increase in the 24" USH.
I hope to have the USH within a week.

BB

[Hogtamer]

I know slug shooters can flinch from time to time didn't know a gun would! You must have shot some big loads out of that H&R over the years and got it slug shy! Did you hit the target???

[bikerbeans]

HT,

I don't shoot groups when I chrony a load, just make sure I aim to put the projectile correctly over the sensors. This technique has allowed this chrony to have a long life.

BB

I know slug shooters can flinch from time to time didn't know a gun would! You must have shot some big loads out of that H&R over the years and got it slug shy! Did you hit the target???

[BAGTIC]

.5 to .8 % is .005 to .008 inch per inch.

[Hogtamer]

In lieu of news, how about this for the shotgun forum theme song?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fCIw6QCmaJ8