The ZLUG Thread

[Hogtamer]

Good point about the engraving pressure and good idea to get them tested. I will make that connection. One thing good though, I wouldn't hesitate to send these down a cylinder smooth bore on top of an x12x gas seal and some hard cards. That may be right up your alley! Also thinking about a drill centered in the base to take some weight off the back and make it more nose heavy. BTW, am measuring with a caliper so could be off a thou or two. Really appreciate the offer and I will definitely send you some zlugs. Was gonna send you a few archery trinkets anyway from last weekend and tomorrow is my first day off since then, so look for a package soon. Some experienced eyeballs and hands on these things may pay off for us all! Thanks a million. Oh, found a RCBS iron .610 RB mold and will be trying to make a 2 - ball load in lighter weight too. Got a great lead 2 - ball but it kicks your brains out. brains out. brains out....

[longbow]

Was than an echo I heard....?

[Cap'n Morgan]

Hogtamer.

While zinc may seem quite hard compared to lead, it's not harder than solid copper and brass bullets. I wouldn't hesitate to try them... but I might just use a long string to pull the trigger the first time

[Tackleberry41]

Was gonna ask how a Lee 1 oz slug mold works w zinc, but see somebody already tried it. Been keeping an eye on these zinc threads since just a good thing to know how to do. But a Lee 1 oz slug will only be about half an ounce in zinc, guess that messes up the load data a little.

[longbow]

Tackleberry41:

A bit of judicious turning of the core pin in both diameter and length would add some mass so if for use in a rifled gun not really a problem. I'd bet you could get weight up to 7/8 oz. anyway.

Check out BPI's "Load of the Week" they have many light payload high velocity recipes. Could be just the ticket.

Cap'n Morgan:

That string wouldn't stretch from Denmark to Georgia would it? That would certainly get you out of the blast radius but the drag on the string might be a bit much.

Just kidding! I agree about the hardness and in a tumble lube design there is not a bunch of metal to swage. Safest approach though is to get them pressure tested if possible/practical and second is the long string. I suspect that while it may seem like a lot to engrave them that the 10,000 or so PSI behind them and the jump through the forcing cone (momentum) will engrave them just fine. Once engraved they should slide nicely down the bore.

On that note, I am guessing a powder at the slow end of the burn scale would be the best choice so pressure doesn't spike during engraving. In fact IMR4227 might be a good choice there but I wouldn't want one of Ed Hubel's recipes behind a Zlug for its maiden voyage. That might be a wee bit much.

Longbow

[Hogtamer]

Update: I sent a couple down the pipe of an 870' cylinder bore 2 3/4" over 33 grns of Alliant Steel powder, an x12x gas seal, couple of hard cards and a felt wad, roll crimped. Modest recoil, guesstimating 1600 fps. Nice load. Blew through 3 pieces of 1" particle board @ 50 yds. Got you a package in the mail today LB. Have your way with those zlugs, got plenty more!

[Michael J. Spangler]

the lee 1oz slug mold drops at about 260 grains and .675 in zinc wheel weight alloy.

[longbow]

What size do you want them after I have had my way with them?

I will make them whatever size you require then send them back your way.

[Hogtamer]

Per Capt. Morgan, included a length of string! Seriously though, thought perhaps you could test them out of smoothbore, examine and measure the one I engraved in my barrel, share your thoughts and experience; if you have access to a rifled gun make 'em fit and give them a whirl. I've got a machinist buddy who could make a type of hammer-through sizer if that's what's needed.

[longbow]

I certainly don't mind flinging a few downrange from smoothbore but without an attached wad they won't be stable very far... but then who said I couldn't try attaching a wad.

I will check them out and see what's what. Don't think I have access to a rifled gun anymore though. I may just get back to my rifled choke tube and finish that up. My intention is deep wide grooves, narrow lands and slow twist but Zlugs might just work in it.

Yeah, making a hammer sizer shouldn't be much work. Just bore to the size you want, make a punch and have at 'er. A bit tedious but for a few to try not a lot of work to make or use. I don't mind sizing and sending some back. Whatever suits you.

I will be looking forward to the package of Zlugs... wait nothing remotely firearm oriented so cylindrical zinc anodes is good.

Longbow

[Hogtamer]

Zinc Lugs... for your hobby cars. And a knap box. And a book about another kind of "cast."

[Tackleberry41]

Tackleberry41:

A bit of judicious turning of the core pin in both diameter and length would add some mass so if for use in a rifled gun not really a problem. I'd bet you could get weight up to 7/8 oz. anyway.

Check out BPI's "Load of the Week" they have many light payload high velocity recipes. Could be just the ticket.

Longbow

A lathe goes a long way with those pins. Modified the one for the .575 minie mold Lee sells. It drops a bit heavy for use in a 20 ga, but might work as is with zinc. The weight is not far enough forward, new pin solves that, deeper cavity. Wish they made something similar for the 12ga. Guess the mold could be modded to make it flatter vs round, more weight. Just wish those handle pins came out easier. Guess solution is to drill them out and put in a screw. Be nice if the small lee molds could have handles removed, I can fit a while lot more Lyman or other molds on a shelf than I can lee.

Has anyone tried to buy that extra pin carrier plate from Lee, vs making one for use with making hollow point molds?

[Blood Trail]

What alloy did you use besides the zinc? Reason I asked is because I have a bunch of kirsite (sp?) I'm not sure what to do with.

[Blood Trail]

Never mind, I saw it!

[Blood Trail]

Attachment 140270A few pics from today for you archers.

Nice! Was that an all traditional shoot? I don't see any wheels.

I'd like to see a full length pic of those wood bows! How many selfbow shooters were there?

I do love the look of a nice recurve but I doubt I will ever shoot anything but my straight limb wood bows again. They make me feel like a kid with a stick and string and I have more fun with them than anything else.

Looks like you got a good turnout. How many shooters?

Longbow

I, too, am a bow hunter. I shoot everything from wheel bows to primitive. I'm in the process of making a boo-backed Osage self bow using all natural materials. Even the string is hog gut.

I made some arrows out of river cane. My knapping skills leave a lot to be desired, but I just started. I usually make my arrow heads out of scrap metal I save from making knives.

Killed a deer last year with my recurve and an arrow I made.

This year, I wanna go 100% primitive.











Sorry to derail this thread.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

My first thought about this project was that it could make a fine project for a firm with die-casting equipment. But I am very pleasantly surprised to see such promising results from gravity casting.

Why not commercial die-casting, since so many states require shotguns for deer, and nobody seems quite satisfied with the performance of existing slugs? I thought they would require a range of different diameters, to suit the different diameters we find in even modern shotgun barrels, and maybe they would be afraid of product liability trouble with members of the intellectual classes who get that wrong.

I would be very wary of much greater forcement than you would find with lead, especially since it comes when a shotgun is at its most vulnerable, immediately the weakening front of the chamber is exposed to pressure. It sounds like a mould with fewer or narrower driving bands might be better. With the mould you've got, though, there has to be a diameter to which these things could be sized, and still get enough grip on the lands to spin them. WE Metford found that rifling half a thousandth deep, and even spiral scratches made with coarse abrasive on a lead lap, would spin a hard-cast bullet until it eroded smooth. The trouble with gaps at the grooves isn't lack of grip, but the blast of gases through the grooves, which tends to blast atomized lead ahead of the bullet, where it is ironed into the bore surface. Besides, atomized lead is something you don't really want to be around. I don't think either of these problems would be as bad with zinc, and it may be that a firm grease cookie between card wads, or a thick plastic wad, would close off those gaps. I can't see this problem being anywhere near as insoluble as it would be with a modern high-pressure rifle.

If it couldn't be solved that way, what you need is a groove-matching-bullet 12ga muzzle-loading rifle, and a piece of the barrel blank to make a mechanically fitting bullet with all the force it takes. Everybody should have one...

I have a rather obsessive interest in Robert Hardy the actor's "Longbow", which almost uniquely combines history and technology without falling down on either. He is not only a traditional archer and bowyer, but a member of the "Mary Rose" trust, specializing in the study and conservation of the Tudor bows found on the warship of Henry VIII, which was raised from the mud outside Portsmouth harbor.

When did I become interested in this? Shortly after my encounter with myasthenia. If you must have a serious illness of the nervous system it is the pick of the bunch. There are no symptoms except extreme weakness, it hardly ever kills anyone, it goes very nearly away, and a recently developed operation stops its once inevitable return. Mine left me with a weakened left hand and both triceps, which are the most unnecessary large muscles in the body. Gravity will do practically all the things the triceps can do, except draw a bow.

I corresponded for a while, about fifteen years ago, with Jim Fetrow of Oregon, who makes bows from native yew, and even then had shot sixteen bull elk with all arrows passing completely through. A friend has successfully grown an illicit cutting I took from the great Anchorwyke yew at Runnymede, under which the Magna Carta may have been signed when it was a large tree. You can never tell the age, because those very old ones are always hollow. My disability lets me out of waiting a century or two. But I have designs, for my own garden, on one in Scotland which is surely much older.

[Blood Trail]

Brother Scotland,
I'm very happy with how factory slugs like Remington Accutips performs out of my slug gun.

But if I can duplicate or at least get pretty close with the Lee slugs and sabot slugs I've been messing around with, that would be better.

Plus, we all love to tinker!

[Hogtamer]

Yep, that cane arrow will definitely make a Blood Trail. That's hunting brother. This gun stuff is kinda grocery shoppin! Sure is fun though.

[Hogtamer]

Just got back from a machinist buddy's house, had in mind him making me a sizer. Well, he measured the zlugs with a real instrument and the actual diameter is .7275. The engraving on one I hammered up the breech a ways was .724. He must be related to Cap't Morgan 'cause he said shoot 'em! Gonna wait on a 2nd opinion from LB all the same. So let's look at some prospective loads. I shot a couple out of cylinder bore yesterday, used 3" Rem Nitro hulls that I'd loaded several times, cut the crimped ends of and roll crimped to a 2 3/4" finished load. I've got some experience with Steel powder under Ed Hubel's guidance, also looking a steel shot loads using equivalent weights. 465 gr is about 1 1/16 oz so I used 33 grns Steel powder, x12x gas seal, fed. 209a primer, a couple of hard cards and a felt wad. No problem with that I think. I will be using new 3" Win. Hulls in working up these loads. I see I need to lose the felt wad when roll crimping. Is a column of just hard cards ok? I also have 700x, 800x, and Longshot. Oh, and have a Hastings barrel bought from Littlejack on the way for my 870.

[longbow]

You may be a bit disappointed in my answer Hogtamer. I still lean toward pressure testing them. Alternately I would try sizing or turning them down until they don't take much if any more force to engrave than lead slugs.

And of course if you have a sacrificial shotgun, the string method works almost as well as pressure testing. If the gun goes "BANG" and doesn't come apart then you can check for sticky extraction, case head expansion, etc. If none shows up the load should be fine.

However, I tend to play it safe after having had one shotgun come apart in my hands. Not a bunch of fun and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I was very lucky and only got minor scratches and some hearing loss.

Longbow