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Thread: The ZLUG Thread

  1. #21
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Have fun at that archery shoot! I sure enjoyed ours last weekend. We had four selfbow shooters too so a improvement. Still not a big class but better. We used to get half a dozen or more but most others faded away a few years ago. Good to see some back. Ours was an all traditional shoot but most have those new fangled glass laminated bows and many even use carbon arrows.

    Looking forward to your Zlug results!

    Longbow

  2. #22
    Boolit Master Cap'n Morgan's Avatar
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    ...most have those new fangled glass laminated bows and many even use carbon arrows.
    I won't mention my Bowtech compound bow then... I do have an old Sandvik take-down steel bow, though, but I'm hopeless at instinctive bow shooting. Seems my mind and my instinct always starts quarreling each other before letting fly
    Cap'n Morgan

  3. #23
    Boolit Master

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    Attachment 140270A few pics from today for you archers.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails image.jpg   image.jpg   image.jpg  

  4. #24
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Nice! Was that an all traditional shoot? I don't see any wheels.

    I'd like to see a full length pic of those wood bows! How many selfbow shooters were there?

    I do love the look of a nice recurve but I doubt I will ever shoot anything but my straight limb wood bows again. They make me feel like a kid with a stick and string and I have more fun with them than anything else.

    Looks like you got a good turnout. How many shooters?

    Longbow

  5. #25
    Boolit Master

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    Nah, plenty of wheels but the trad guys have all the fun! 10 or 12 selfies at least, a bunch of lam longbows and 'curves but more every year. we set our ranges as realistic as possible and not all wheelie guys are not in love with limbs and vines. Monty Browning is always there with our kids and just got his spectacular book out. Around 250 or so shooters, 400 total counting families that come. Big fish fry tonight, BBQ last night, lunches provided, great camping, all free to participants. All volunteer, ting.mostly church folks. Novelty shoots, many doorprizes and grand prize is hog hunt @ big acreage private land on Savannah River with 7 miles river frontage. Winner determined by Friday team archery poker. 5 people shoot at back of cards on a butt fom 20 yds. high hand wins the hunt. Wish you could be here and join the fun. Big Sunday lunch tomorrow after a church service with Memorial Service immediately afterwords. Then both ranges open for fun shooting.
    .

  6. #26
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Sounds like a great shoot and good fun!

    I think the best turn out of self bows we have had is a half dozen or so. The rest of the field is pretty evenly split between recurves and longbows (laminated bows). We only got just over 100 shooters last weekend but that is one of our best turnouts for the big provincial traditional shoot.

    This year we had 4 self bows so at least we had a decent class. Last couple of years there has only been two of us. I would like to see more wood bows out but I really don't care if we have a class. When I am practiced up I can hold my own against the laminated bows. If I do my part my wood bow and self nocked arrows do theirs.

    We shoot bowbirds, water bags and long distance for novelties.

    The open shoots draw more people but of course most are compound shooters.

    Enjoy your weekend!

    Longbow

  7. #27
    Boolit Master

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    Here's the slug mold Tom's building now.
    http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...73-770SU-D.png
    27% bearing surface. If it all fails I can pour a 1 3/4oz soft lead slug to shoot out of open smoothbore
    Last edited by Hogtamer; 05-26-2015 at 08:41 PM.

  8. #28
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Now that is a nice looking slug!

    If it doesn't work for you in zinc, you might consider having it hollow based. It should make a decent thick skirted hollow base slug.

    It might work as is cast of lead through rifled choke tube too.

    However, you will be successful with your zinc slug! So don't worry!

    Longbow

  9. #29
    Boolit Master

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    NEWS! I got the ZA3 from rotometals today, nice shiny ingots in connected pairs, along with a casting thermometer and a bottom pour ladle. I've got an iron Lyman Minie mold that always cast oversize in wheel weights and thought what the heck. First to see if I could melt this stuff on my one burner coleman propane. Nothing for 15 minutes so worked it from the top with a propane torch. Soon got a little liquid and it went pretty quick from there. Meanwhile heating the mold really hot with the torch thinking this will never work with this hollow base pin. Heated ladle too and left in the melt. Ok, ready to hurry hurry hurry, pour and mold quickly overflows and I think it cooled to quick and didn't fill the cavity, but hit the cutter a couple of times with a wooden mallet and this big sprue pops off. Open the mold and can't believe it! Perfect fillout and the minie just fell off the pin. Here you go. The zinc on the left and .004 less diameter less than the lead, .575 vs .579. Somebody help me here but is that not .0069%? So if my new mold cast .735 w/COWW won't that be about .729? And then there's the weight. The lead minie weighs 478 gr. vs 280 gr. for the Za3, 58% less. Now I see there's a void in nose up from the bottom, that may or may not be a problem. Can't really tell without cutting or drilling how much metal is missing there
    Attachment 140651. Overall greatly encouraging.
    Last edited by Hogtamer; 05-27-2015 at 09:37 PM.

  10. #30
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Looks good! What does it mic compared to lead?

    You will get more shrinkage in 12. but it will give you an idea of what to expect.

    Now let's see some of those big 'ol 12 ga. boolits! The mould must be on its way shortly so don't dilly dally when it arrives.

    Longbow

  11. #31
    Boolit Master

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    edited above post.

  12. #32
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I stand corrected in my comment "big 'ol 12 ga. boolits" Of course I meant big 'ol 12 ga. Zlugs!

    And yup it does look promising. You should be right on for size. Oh, wait a minute, these are intended for rifled gun right? What's the groove diameter? Seems to me they tend to be a couple thou under the nominal 12 ga. bore of 0.729". Not much bearing surface to swage though so that's good.

    Anyway, I will be looking forward to casting tests in the new Zlug mould.

    Longbow

  13. #33
    Boolit Master


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    I cast some zlugs using a lee 1 oz mood yesterday.
    I will get some measurements and picture later. I hope the info is helpful. It cast very easily. I used a Rowell 1# ladle and cast from a cast iron pot on top of a turkey fryer burner. I ran the metal at about 725 degrees. Once I cast a couple slugs they dropped fine and as long as I got to the sprue quickly I had no issues cutting them. It was just like casting with that lee mold with lead. Keep it moving fast and all is well.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master

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    Thanks Michael. I got my mold yesterday from Tom @ Accurate molds....1 week from order date including shipping! First cast was from COWW to actually see what it dropped vs specs. Well, when Tom says .735 that is exactly what he means apparently! Dead on. Good crisp grooves. Supposed to weigh 770 grns, 3 slug average = 775 grains, about 1 3/4 oz. So Tom has done his part to perfection! Hate to think what it will take to move this baby. Next of course will be casting with the Zamak 3. Stay tuned!

  15. #35
    Boolit Master


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    Awesome can't wait to hear the results.
    I have a friend that has tested some of my lead lee slugs and he used to load 2 of them back to back in a 10 gauge hull. That made for some nice recoil.

  16. #36
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Those look real good Hogtamer.

    Let's hope that the zinc shrinkage is what we expect then you are off to the races.

    Looking forward to field test results.

    Longbow

  17. #37
    Boolit Master

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    Zlugs! .729 - 465 gr. Zamak 3

  18. #38
    Boolit Master

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    Casting was no big deal, just have to get big puddle on sprue, shake mold while you're pouring over pot and let excess run over into pot. Now the bad news. I got exactly what I'd hoped for but takes too much pressure to engrave. I tapped both the lead and the zinc slugs through an old sawed off barrel I have to "size," and close as I can tell the slugs are exact same dimension, .729 afterwards. Took more pressure than I thought to get the lead slug down the pipe of the rifled barrel but got perfect engraving. Can even see tiny bit of light at the grooves when halfway down the bore. Exact same thing picture with the Zlug, but couldn't get it down the bore with a hammer and wooden dowel. Finally had to knock it out from other end. Did engrave the zlug but this stuff is hard. Won't shoot it from rifled barrel needing that much pressure. Thought about freezing them to contract but would that be a real fix? Maybe could make a sizer and take off another .001 - can barely hook fingernail on rifling now. Would lube help? I need you guys here as this seems real close. Talk to me!

  19. #39
    Boolit Buddy
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    WOW! The most expected result I have been waiting for... Great Zlugs there...
    I can only dream about such perfection.

  20. #40
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Hogtamer, you are so close!

    I would try lube. Lee Liquid Alox would probably be perfect but I have to think that any boolit lube would work.

    What you might think about is to load some up and send to Tom Armbrust for pressure testing to see how they do. I think his prices are pretty decent or last I heard anyway. I know Greg Sappington has gone to Tom with some of his loads before.

    How much force did it take to engrave? Can you put a scale on when you push through the bore? I am thinking that if it takes say 100 lbs. to engrave, that seems like a lot when you are pushing/hammering but when you have 10,000 PSI pushing it may not be so much.

    Greg says that zinc is so hard that zinc boolits cannot be easily sized... which isn't to say they can't be sized but it may take an arbor press to do it.

    If all else fails I will make you a hammer sizer to drive them through. It may be tedious but it should work fine. Or possibly a roll sizer would work. I am thinking like the Corbin knurling tool but with smooth rolls. If you send me a few slugs I will give that a try in my knurler. I can make up smooth rolls and give it a go.

    We have to get you Zlugs that will work at safe pressures.

    So, first try contacting Tom Armbrust:

    Tom Armbrust
    Ballistic Research
    1108 W. May Ave
    McHenry, IL 60050-8918.
    815.385.0037
    E-mail - barbmiller49@yahoo.com

    Not sure if that is current but the best I could find. If it doesn't work Greg Sappington likely knows how to get hold of him.

    If that fails, send me some zinc cylinder anodes and I will size them and send them back to you.

    Longbow

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check