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Thread: shot placement above all else

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by quickdraw66 View Post
    With rounds like the .223, bullet selection is extremely important. You need one that will penetrate well, but also expand sufficiently. With the right bullet, and good shot placement, it will drop a deer in its tracks.
    You are correct and it is what I say for every single caliber. Bullet/boolit work! But how do you know unless you kill animals and see? I do not want to lose a single deer. I did from being wrong.

  2. #22
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    44man your wisdom is sound and I've never known you to give bad council! The two stories to start this post was not to advocate small guns on big game, just using what was on hand to end bad situations both were first hand accounts, one I saw my self the other saw the outcome of and heard the tale from several witnesses . im an advocate of using enough gun, any rifle in the hands of a true student of the rifle beats a sharp stick or a miss with a cannon. IT left an impression on me to see that enraged bull go lights out like that.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by nagantguy View Post
    44man your wisdom is sound and I've never known you to give bad council! The two stories to start this post was not to advocate small guns on big game, just using what was on hand to end bad situations both were first hand accounts, one I saw my self the other saw the outcome of and heard the tale from several witnesses . im an advocate of using enough gun, any rifle in the hands of a true student of the rifle beats a sharp stick or a miss with a cannon. IT left an impression on me to see that enraged bull go lights out like that.
    I agree, most cows are killed with some hammer with a low charge. Takes very little to kill if in the right spot. But animals are not wanting to die and a deer can be very tough.

  4. #24
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    that brings up a whole new dimension in the hunting and ceasing of the animals life.
    if the animal is calm and unaware it is in danger or if the animal has been shot at or
    was disturbed before the shot or shots make a world of difference as to how easy the
    end is and what it takes to do the deed.
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  5. #25
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    Quite true! A deer on alert or scared can go a long way after its heart is shot out. A hit to the brain or spine slows them down a lot!

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by 44man View Post
    Ever try and shoot a rooster in the head with a .22 pistol?
    Yep took the whole magazine but I got the bastard who spurred me the second time.

  7. #27
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    I have repeatedly tracked deer shot with a .223 for a long way, 3200 fps is pointless without enough bullet weight to penetrate tissue , or pass through. Bullets that enter in line with the heart behind the shoulder can wind up in a hind quarter , or disintegrate completely just wounding a deer. I dont teach head shots on deer so I switched my little huntress to a 30 cal boolit, it is not as pin point accurate as her .223 but I think a 185grn lead slug will make a much cleaner kill with a shot to the vitals. Disrupting the nervous system is always the most effective way , but not always practical or possible.
    AR15 goes bang, AK47 goes bang, Mosin goes boom...

  8. #28
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    Back when I still hunted (not to be confused with still hunting), I used a .223 quite a bit. I shot the deer in the head. Usually blew the eyeballs out of the sockets and they dropped in their tracks. If you can't hit a deer head within 100 yds with an accurate .223 then you need to spend more time at the range. If a deer was farther than I was comfortable shooting, then I would do the ol' sneak-a-roo and get closer or pass on the shot. I upgraded to a 30-30 at one point, and started shooting in the vitals. Some dropped where hit, and some ran a little ways. I then started waiting until they were closer and shooting them in the head again. If I couldn't assure myself of a clean head shot, then I didn't shoot.

    I eventually upgraded to a 8mm Mauser. It was a pristine M48A yugo. Behind the shoulder hits with Remington Cor-lokt bullets usually resulted in dropping where hit or a very little running. So I used the 8mm for the rest of my hunting days. These were Georgia deer. Not very large most of the time.

    Having spent many years (not as many as some of the ancient members here (said jokingly)), I find hunter accuracy pretty poor more often than not. Every year since I have been shooting, sight in week before hunting season has always been amusing and dangerous. I often asked myself how some of these people ever kilted a deer. Pie plates, shooting a box of rounds until you hit the pie plate (without ever touching the scope adjustments) and calling the rifle zeroed. 10 inch groups at 100 yds with the declaration "She usually shoots under and inch in the field!"

    Ahh. Good times.

    Summary: Shot placement is very important, but combining shot placement with an adequate caliber tilts the odds further in your favor.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master pmer's Avatar
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    The smallest cartridge I ever used was a .300-221. I had a nice doe coming and was going to try for a chest shot but chickened out and went for neck, the neck seems bigger than the head and therefore more forgiving. I used a Nosler 150 grain Ballisitc Tip, I figured it would hold up good because of the lower velocity. It worked good in that case. Shot placement means as much today as when the .32-20 was new.

    I too think you have use what you have on hand sometimes. Then it helps to have some knowledge of the animal, luck and a nice shot. At home,I recently had a quick chance on a big female coyote. It was about as quick as I could "grab and go". I happened to be working with a AR and a prairie dog load and also had a loaded magazine (luck). She turned on the first shot and running broad side went down on the third shot (nice shot). First was a miss, second was a lower graze, third blew in the chest like small nuke went off. .20-.223, 40 grain Hornaday V-max
    Oh great, another thread that makes me spend money.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master Markbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeggen View Post
    ... The reasoning for useing his 300 was "if I don't get a good hit I'll still kill the deer cause of the harder hitting slug.".....
    I cannot call that guy an idiot because it kind of makes sense if you re not a gun guy. I have met an awful lot of hunters with this same mistaken belief. However...we that do know better owe it to everyone to take every opportunity to dispel this very dangerous assumption. I have personally tracked more lost deer shot with the 7mm Mag than all other calibers combined.

    Just be nice about it and explain with stories and personal experience why this dangerous assumption is so wrong. I have found once a knowledgeable gun guy starts talking your average hunter will listen because it's obvious you know way more than them.
    Last edited by Markbo; 05-24-2015 at 08:11 PM.

  11. #31
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    Same as anyone saying they can hit a deer in the brain every shot. Can you give me a break?

  12. #32
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    Freshly dressed chicken, rabbit, frog legs will often twitch or jerk when sprinkled with a little salt. It is a purely chemical reaction no brains needed. It is the same thing that makes it possible for many politicians to give opinions on things they know nothing about. Twitching of the tongue, no brains needed.

  13. #33
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    When I was a new hunter all you could use in my part of Michigan was 1. A shotgun 2. A Muzzle loader.
    My Dad made sure I had both. My first deer went down to an Ithaca 12 gauge using a paper patched Lyman foster style slug. In fact most of my deer have fallen to this combo. We spent a lot of time working up that load and it has served me well ovewr the years.
    Watch your back.
    Shoot Straight.
    Conserve ammo.
    Never cut a deal with a Dragon. From the Shadowrun tabletop Role Playing Game.

  14. #34
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    What worries me about deer is they can move their head with any sound right at trigger break. Best way to head shoot them is when you blind them with a spot light.

  15. #35
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    Those who say they can hit a deer in the brain every time, will also lie to you about other things.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    Those who say they can hit a deer in the brain every time, will also lie to you about other things.
    That would be night hunting from the truck!

  17. #37
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    My problem with head shots on a deer is that head moves a LOT. If they are head down feeding, that head comes up FAST at any sound not normal to the area. I've sat and watched does and small bucks feeding in mid afternoon. Farm quarter mile away, screen door slams, not even a blink. Car starts, tractor starts, nada. A single twig snaps in the trees and all heads are up instantly, all ears pointed toward the sound. It all depends on what is "Normal" to the area.

    I have seen them outjump shotgun slugs at 40 yards easily.

    If however you aimed for the neck where it connects to the shoulders. If the deer should jump up and forward. Well you just landed a still fatal round. In theory at least.

    I will freely admit that I got most of my deer following a simple piece of advice from an old friend.
    Don't stand out there like a fencepost, and if they are coming at you, let them come.

    My big 10 pointer on my wall was less than 6" above the end of my shotgun barrel, he never saw me, jumped right over the firebush I was tucked into, and me. One shot into the heart from super close range. The 20 gauge slug ripped up through his heart, lung lodged into the right shoulder.

    My best one though was a straight on shot at a nice doe, I was tucked into a small weed cluster around a power pole.
    She was coming straight at me, so I waited till she was can't miss close. Straight into the chest from the front, she sumersaulted 3 times and landed with her nose on my left shoe. That was almost too close. My old hunting buddy came wandering that way, I'm still hunkered down. He says "I heard you shoot" Right beside me I said, and he walked around the pole. Looked at the deer, back tracked it, it was pretty plain where she took the shot. "*** over teakettle?" he asked. Yep, 3 times.

    Boy, that is almost too close.

    Yep.

    Hunker down, if they are coming your way, let them come. Take a good bead, try to stay just out of falling deer range.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by 44man View Post
    That would be night hunting from the truck!
    Know how they close the hunting season on the reservation? Take all the window cranks off the pick ups!
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    Know how they close the hunting season on the reservation? Take all the window cranks off the pick ups!
    That's a good one!
    But some red necks put a battery drill on them!

  20. #40
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    Take all the window cranks off the pick ups and how can they throw their beer cans along the trail leading to their T Pee?
    WE WON. WE BEAT THE MACHINE. WE HAVE CCW NOW.

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check