shot placement above all else

[nagantguy]

Hope this is in the right spot, fell free to move if its not....something happened the other day that jogged a memory from deep in my foggy mind. A good friend works weekend as a butcher, they had a buffalo get out of the holding pen and run across two and into a back yard. My buddy had only his carry gun on him a 9mm pistol and his woodchuck gun a .243 model 70. After some attempts to coral the agitated bison he dispatched it with one round of soft point .243 said it dropped like the rug had been pulled out, between the ear and eye at about 40 yards. It made me remember as a young marine in on a float to a nasty place we did some training in Spain, a truck hit a bull a very large bull who was probably mad at the best of times well now he was furious spittle and bawling a platoon mate of mine we called him swamp rat; thing swamp people on history channel, he said " I can put him down on the spot, he was given a full mag, stood on the hood of a Humvee and with one round to the top of the head at about 65 yards....DRT. Neither of these stories involved cast boolits but the point is shot placement trumps all other considerations and variables. .5.56 nor .243 is by any stretch "Buffalo"guns but cool hands with a rifle won the day.

[dragon813gt]

Placement is more important than any other factor. I've passed on more shots than I can count because of this. Wounding an animal is one of the worse things you can do IMO.

[Digital Dan]

Watched an elephant drop from a single 5.56 round in Nam. Cost me a case of beer, but I call it a cheap education. No ele here abouts so I shoot pigs with CB Shorts. Once.

[blikseme300]

Reminds me of the expression: A miss is as good as a mile.

Tracked a number of wounded animals after bad shooting by hunters using super-duper magnums that were used poorly soured me to long range and poor shooting. I don't care how well somebody can shoot at long range from a bench as hunting should be done within capabilities in the field.

As a kid I took a number of Springbok using a Remington Target Master .22 using iron sights and shots to the head. It took patience and some luck as these animals are very wary. This experience stood me to good stead when I upgraded to a 8mm Mauser and larger game in the bushveld. I passed on many possible shots because I was not sure I could pull it off so tried again another day. Ethical hunting is a large part of my upbringing and I despise bad hunting ethics. I only shoot what I will eat and trophies leave me cold also.

[nagantguy]

Reminds me of the expression: A miss is as good as a mile.

Tracked a number of wounded animals after bad shooting by hunters using super-duper magnums that were used poorly soured me to long range and poor shooting. I don't care how well somebody can shoot at long range from a bench as hunting should be done within capabilities in the field.

As a kid I took a number of Springbok using a Remington Target Master .22 using iron sights and shots to the head. It took patience and some luck as these animals are very wary. This experience stood me to good stead when I upgraded to a 8mm Mauser and larger game in the bushveld. I passed on many possible shots because I was not sure I could pull it off so tried again another day. Ethical hunting is a large part of my upbringing and I despise bad hunting ethics. I only shoot what I will eat and trophies leave me cold also.

Right on, learning things like that in youth it sticks with ya, sound like you are the product of good upbringing! I don't trophy hunt either but funny thing is my freezer is full of "trophy" meat and fish! I got started hunting with a single shot 20gauge dad said when I got good with it I could get a pump 12, my dream at the time.....I got good 25 rabbits one December with 25 shells! Took my first buck with it also, 12 pumps sxs over understand and autos have come and gone by the scores still have that 20 and my grandkids will learn on it.

[white eagle]

reminds me of a story my father told me about a deer he killed
it was the last day of the gun deer season
the last push he did for my grandfather
he said a buck stood up in front of him at around 30 yds and was looking in the opposite direction
from which he was coming
he told me he shot right behind the ear and like your stories it was drt
It is a beautiful symmetric 8 pt.with a 19.5" inside spread

[olafhardt]

I read a report of a tiger stalking an APC when i was in Vietnam. The gunner cut loose with a 50BMG. The tiger attacked the ACP and was finished off with M 16's. I have often wondered why a shot to the CNS results in DRT, why do chickens run and jump when they get their heads chopped off.

[Djones]

I read a report of a tiger stalking an APC when i was in Vietnam. The gunner cut loose with a 50BMG. The tiger attacked the ACP and was finished off with M 16's. I have often wondered why a shot to the CNS results in DRT, why do chickens run and jump when they get their heads chopped off.

Same reason frog legs jump in the frying pan I reckin

[GoodOlBoy]

Same reason a cottonmouth or rattler will still bite ya with a cut off head

GoodOlBoy

[sixshot]

Bullet placement & penetration are way more important than caliber. A big gun just buys you more distance....& recoil. Also remember that recoil increases about twice the rate of velocity.

Dick

[ksfowler166]

Recently my next door neighbor's son who is 12 I think shot a Bison with a 243 win out of a truck window. He dropped it with one shot.

Along the lines of 5.56 for tigers many years ago Savage came out with what was designed as a deer round called the 22 Savage Hi Power also called the 22 Imp or 5.6 X 52mm R in Europe. The round was a .227 or .228 diameter 70gr bullet at 3100 fps. The round wound up being used on African game as well as tigers in India.

[leeggen]

There once was a guy that was allowed to hunt deer on our property, he normally used a 270 but for some reason he decided to use his 300 mag. He shot a deer at about 75yd said he had tracked it for a mile before losing it. I found it todays later 50 yds from where he had shot and wounded it, he shot the whole lower jaw off. I ask him about it and he states he wanted to do a head shot so he would not mess up the meat. Needless to say he never hunted here nor anywhere I found out he was hunting when on other peoples property. The reasoning for useing his 300 was "if I don't get a good hit I'll still kill the deer cause of the harder hitting slug.
I have passed up way more shots than I have taken because I just didn't like the 1 in XXX posibilities of a wound and not a dead on the spot shot.
Just me and the way I hunt.
CD

[quickdraw66]

I've seen plenty of deer taken cleanly with a .223 and a good hunting bullet (I like the 65gr GameKings). A well placed shot with a .223 is always better than a poor shot with a 458 Win Mag.

[condor257]

I hunted with a guy who swore by his 300 win mag, he shot a little blacktail buck maybe 110 pounds at 25 yards that deer never flinched until the dirt blew up behind him after it passed through the buck. We tracked that deer for a mile and lost the trail we did circles until it got to dark to see then came back the next morning for another look and never found him, the next day his son had a similar shot but using a 22-250 and the outcome was backstrap's for breakfast. Its not about power its about placement.

[44man]

Placement is always needed of course but most of us shoot off hand so a little discrepancy must be allowed for. As long as not a gut shot, the boolit should work for a fast kill. Shooting an animal in the brain is just not the norm. You can do that with a .22. Most hunt deer with an 06 or larger. Still takes a good hit. Still takes accuracy and a calm head.
Ever try and shoot a rooster in the head with a .22 pistol?

[Blammer]

Same reason a cottonmouth or rattler will still bite ya with a cut off head

GoodOlBoy

tenacity!

[44man]

I've seen plenty of deer taken cleanly with a .223 and a good hunting bullet (I like the 65gr GameKings). A well placed shot with a .223 is always better than a poor shot with a 458 Win Mag.

Not from me. My mailman brought his daughter to hunt, super good shot with a .223. She shot a big doe in the front, direct path to the heart. No blood at all. Lost deer. I went to my stand an hour later and found her deer. Maybe 150 yards from where hit. I gutted it and seen 6" of penetration only.
Whitworth was with us and 4 of us found no sign at all.
I convinced her father into a 30-30 and I call her the deer master now.
Maybe you kill deer with the toy but is it the right way?
I seen the skin blown off deer with no penetration with a .220 Swift but others claim kills. Bullet choice is a butt biter.

[quickdraw66]

Not from me. My mailman brought his daughter to hunt, super good shot with a .223. She shot a big doe in the front, direct path to the heart. No blood at all. Lost deer. I went to my stand an hour later and found her deer. Maybe 150 yards from where hit. I gutted it and seen 6" of penetration only.
Whitworth was with us and 4 of us found no sign at all.
I convinced her father into a 30-30 and I call her the deer master now.
Maybe you kill deer with the toy but is it the right way?
I seen the skin blown off deer with no penetration with a .220 Swift but others claim kills. Bullet choice is a butt biter.

With rounds like the .223, bullet selection is extremely important. You need one that will penetrate well, but also expand sufficiently. With the right bullet, and good shot placement, it will drop a deer in its tracks.

[44man]

More deer are lost around here from 7mm mags and .300's then anything else. I will add 30-06's and .308's. Best gun here is a revolver or 30-30. .35 Rem would be a good one.
Once helped a man drag a deer in PA, tiny thing so I carried his gun and stuff. He hit the deer and dropped it, got up and ran off. Snow, so he tracked and shot and shot, 30-06 with 180 gr bullets. After 6 shots it stayed down. All shots behind the shoulder that I could cover with my hand. Placement is lost if you use the wrong bullet. See me hunt with a .223? I don't think so.
.357 revolver can lose 50% of deer hit. .44 is better and the .475 BFR and .500 JRH BFR will drop every deer in place with no meat damage.

[1Shirt]

Sure is hard to beat 44Mans logic!
1Shirt!