1886 Kropatschek 8x60r loading

[Nowherefound]

Hey everyone, as a disclaimer there are parts of this post that could probably fit into several posting areas. That said I am starting to gather information and am testing the waters on which direction I would like to go. I just picked up a 1886 Kropatschek and am looking at throwing some loads together, This is where the branches start. My long term goal would be to shoot this paper patched over black powder with a bullet weight close to the original (247 grains as I understand). The groove is .330.

Now, I have played around with paper patching for my M95 (8x56r and also .330 groove) using a lee C324-175 bullet so right now that is what I have to start with.

Is anyone shooting this patched or unpatched cast? If so what molds and such are you running?

Ive read of others using 21-24 grains of 5744 which I do have on hand... I also use a lot of Unique and Red Dot for my 30 cal military rifles at 100 yards. how are those pressure wise on this old girl?

Like I said, long term I would like to run black powder which would have to be special ordered in my area as far as I can tell... Pyrodex can be had locally (no hazmet shipping is a plus). Having never loaded black powder I am doing a ton of reading in that part of the forum. But anyone with experience in a similar caliber or running lighter that issue weight(175 vs. 247) please chime in.

I look forward to hearing any responses. The brass is in the mail but it may take some time to really detail strip this and get the old crud and rust away from the stock line and under the barrel bands so I am not in any rush.

[Nowherefound]

As a post script to an already long post, a lot of my excitement comes from the idea of sitting next to and smoking out all the ninjas with swiss army knife AR's. Don't get me wrong... A rifleman is a rifleman... but some of these guys...

[pworley1]

You are going to enjoy that old beauty. I have not shot mine with black powder, but they all shoot smokeless just fine. I form my brass from 348 win. If you have a lathe they are easy to make. I bevel the rim 20 degrees to match the bolt face and run through them the Kropatschek size die. My best load is a 200 grain bullet over 28 grains of IMR 4198.

[Nowherefound]

Since I am logging all of this for future use do you mind sharing the bullet design, lube and if it is checked or plain?

[pworley1]

I used the lee mold for the 8x56. It drops about 330. It is a checked bullet. I use white label x-lox 2500 lube.

[Stoats]

I had one briefly, and shot .330 SP in it over a full case of Swiss black powder (ither number 2 or 3).

Shot OK.

If I were to do it now, I'd load the Lee bullet as-cast and lubed with my secret recepie (ask White Label for "Stoats' secret recipe") over a full case of Swiss No. 3.

[Nowherefound]

Thanks for the reply, I'll ask about that secret recipe. I have a large supply of Lars' BAC and have been VERY satisfied with in in my 357 and low power rifle rounds. As far as I am concerned he can have all of my business.

[Charley]

My brass is .348 Winchester, with a beveled base, bullet s Lee's .330 (allegedly) for the 8x56R Mannlicher. My bore is .327-.328, and the .330 works well. I've been using fairly light load of 2400. Don't have my data in front of me, so I won't guess.

[Nowherefound]

So here is a question to those using the Lee ".329" what is it actually dropping at? If I had one dropping at .331 I would be stoked because I could use it in this Krop and my M95 carbine. I have been hesitant on picking one up for fear that .329 or .330 would be undersized for me and be pretty useless. Part of the reason I have been playing around with paper patching in my M95 actually. Thus the reason I was thinking about paper patching for the Krop too.

[WouterNL]

In 2013 I bought my Lee C329-205 mould and i'm still shooting bullets which I cast out of it at in december 2013.
My alloy is 50% soft lead and 50% hard lead (lino / mono ??, letter-lead). The hardness of this alloy a few weeks after casting (which I tested once with a Lee-tester) is ca 15bhn the weight is ca 200gn.

I calipered one, the nose-part is ca .320", the drivingbands are ca 0.331 to 0.332 (boolit is not perfectly round, so there is a little variation in it).


This is how I make my cartridges:
-re-formed .348 Win case with beveled rim
-neck stretched up to .328" (and "flared" a little bit)
-powdercharge of 32grain Swiss no4 blackpowder
-couscous as filler
-boolits are pan-lubed with beeswax and hydrogenated palmfat (50/50)
-over all length of 75,15mm

I don't know the start-velocity of the boolit (don't know yet...)

I tested at 50 meter (rifle supported on a rest, indoor range)
The best results I get with a boolit without gascheck and sized to .329" (the only relevant sizer I have).
with/without gascheck and as-cast boolits the groupsizes are some bigger.

in 2014 I slugged the barrel of my krop with a 100% soft lead boolit, the groove-dimension is .330", the bore is ca .3155" (measured with my old calipers which is maybe less accurate than my new caliper.
EDIT/addition:
today I measured the same slug with my new calipers, results: groove 0.3290" / bore 0.3160".
(more-measurement is tricky to measure I think, measurement of the bore-dimension is taken at the nose-part of the boolit)
END of edit/addition
For 100meter the results are not ok for me with this cartridge, my next step is to use more powder, but this is something I will test in the near future.

When I have a "acceptable" 100m cartridge I also want to try paperpatching (just for trying to make this work).
I have done some thinking about that, my plan (for now) is:
- use a boolit which is (unpatched) 0,003 - 0,007" smaller than the bore-dia (maybe I buy the lee TL309-230-5R for this, this because the boolit is some heavyer)
-patch up to 0,002" over bore-diameter, if this is a to big challenge to accomplish, maybe I will patch the boolit up, and size the patched boolit with a lee .323" sizer
-Working the cases with a dieset without the expander-ball, and after that to stretch the neck up with a M-die to .322" (and flare a little bit)
-while shooting with blackpowder I want to add a greasecooky in the case (not below the neck), with a grease-proof cardboard disk on both sides of the grease

I don't know if this is a good startingpoint for this, but I want to keep my first try "low cost".
When I have (essential) things in my "recipe" not allright, please tell.

Greetings!