30/30 and AA4350

[dougader]

So I have this keg of AA4350. I had a smaller bottle of it that went bad so I'm afraid the keg might not be too far behind. I'm trying to use it up and stated putting it in everything possible... 30-06, 338-06, and now the 30/30 Contender.

I looked in Lyman 46 and they show a 150 jsp with 32-36 grains IMR 4350. I decided to start with 34 grains of the AA4350 and coated 125 grain boolit I bought online.

It felt like a real powder puff load, especially compared to a jsp 130 and 31 grains of AA2460.

The only problem I see us the amount of unburned powder. The load averages 1438 fps with an ES of 104 fps.

Do you think adding more powder would see the powder burn better, or should I try a small starter charge of Red Dot, or just leave it as is???

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

[runfiverun]

a Dacron filler will help.
4350 is not a happy camper under a reduced load as you have found out.

[dougader]

Actually, 34 grains is slightly compressed. I imagine a drop tube would make it fill more densely. At this charge, the pressure is still low; primers are still completely round at the edges. That's why I wondered if making it a few grains more might actually get the burn going better, with a more compressed charge.

[frnkeore]

I think your only way to burn most of the powder is use the RCBS 180 gr FN, for hunting or get a 200+ gr bullet mold like the 311299 or the NOE 311365.

You can also duplex it if, you feel comfortable doing that.

Frank

[madsenshooter]

I'm a fellow who plays with duplexing some, and I don't think I'd mess with duplexing 4350. I've tried one experiment with a ball powder about that burn rate in 6x45. Pressures go up really quick. You might try a magnum primer before messing with duplexing. And if you do go on to duplex, start with very small charges of the kicker, 1 or 2gr. Frank's idea of a heavier bullet is a good thought too.

[725]

Heavier bullet to increase pressures should equal better burn.

[runfiverun]

yeah.
if the load is compressed then you need to help the powder get into a higher pressure zone to burn better.
a heavier boolit would help for sure, a magnum primer may help in this situation.

I have got 4831 to burn pretty clean in the 30-30 by using a heavier boolit [311041] and the Winchester primers seemed to be plenty to light it off.

but for sure a faster powder would be the better choice. [I know, I know]

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Heavier bullet best choice. I found that when using a compressed load, a magnum primer may help reduce velocity variance and reduce unburned powder. The greater compression, the more the primer flame is restricted. Over a Chrony, I found velocity to sometimes lower when compressed then increase with additional powder due to primer flame restriction.

[dougader]

Thanks for the info guys. I'll try heavier boolits first.

[1johnlb]

Does aa4350 go old? Am I in danger of losing my 4350 stash?

How old is that 4350?

[dougader]

I bought it in 1992. The powder in the keg seems just fine, but I had poured some powder into an old brown vitamin bottle to make it easier to pour into my powder measure. I left that little bottle in the bottom drawer of a roll away dresser and it went bad. It didn't turn red or anything but it seemed like all the components separated, presumably because of high swings in temperature in the garage.

I opened the lid and made the mistake of leaning in close to sniff it before I even noticed the black fumes floating out of the bottle. Talk about nasty. There was a clear glycerin type liquid and then all the clumped up extruded kernels. Definitely bad.

[303Guy]

Over a Chrony, I found velocity to sometimes lower when compressed then increase with additional powder due to primer flame restriction.

That might explain why I can stuff so much Lil'Gun into a hornet case without expanding the primer pocket. I theorized that the compression was lowering the pressure but velocities were in line with extrapolation from known loads which were not compressed.

More to the point, someone somewhere told me that 4350 in a 30-30 worked very well with a full case under a heavy bullet but at modest velocity. I think it was a 180 gr bullet doing 1900 fps - not sure. A jacketed bullet would raise pressure so perhaps a 200 gr cast would be in order? Don't underestimate how heavy a boolit a slow twist can stabilize (or overestimate it). The hornet I mentioned stabilized a 60 gr spire point just fine in a 16" twist (and was accurate with it but it wasn't slow).

[GabbyM]

You need a heavier bullet IMHO. Also I stopped using Federal primers on slow powders years ago. At least in 270 and 30-06 size cases. Federals are a mild primer and my favorite with faster powders in my 243 Win and 223. CCI standard or a Remington Magnum primer are what I use for WW 760 and IMR4350. 30-30 case being small in comparison I can't imagine it needing a magnum primer. The Remington magnum, from what I can discover, is the mildest of the American Magnum primers.

[Treeman]

I think that something got introduced to your vitamin bottle. As I recall 4350 is a single base/nitrocellulose only powder. Very stable by nature but if deteriorating it would form reddish dust on the surface of the kernals-no liquid should come from it at all.

[oldblinddog]

I remember something about slow powders (4350/4831 for instance) being very usefull in compressed charges in small cases. Pressures remain low and there is no chance of detonation. Indeed, my duPont handout shows a max load in the .30-30 with a 150 gr j-bullet of 38.5 gr. of IMR 4350. Velocity is 2080 and pressure is 29,600 c.u.p. I would think that you will be just fine with that load. Work up a 1/2 gr. at a time to "max". You most likely won't generate enough pressure to max it out simply because you won't be able to get enough powder in the case, but you may be able to get it to burn cleaner.

[303Guy]

Indeed, my duPont handout shows a max load in the .30-30 with a 150 gr j-bullet of 38.5 gr. of IMR 4350. Velocity is 2080 and pressure is 29,600 c.u.p.

What's not to like? That sounds like just the ticket for cast (with a little more weight). Load up, go shoot then report back. Some of us want to know how it works out. Actually, all of us want to know.

[rking22]

Good friend of mine is shooting it in a 788 3030 I traded to him. Getting very good results with 311041 ACWW and a case full of IMR4350.

[303Guy]

What boolit weight is that 311041?

[dougader]

Lyman lists it as 173 grains with their #2 alloy. I'm looking to get that mould.

[dougader]

The first load noted above left lots of unburned powder down the length of the barrel, starting in the chamber. More kernels in the cases, too. I still don't have any heavier boolits to try, and no mag primers... so I ran 5 each of the following:

1) 125 grain Powder Coat Roundnose (PCRN) / 34 grains AA4350 over 2 grains Blue Dot (BD). All loads are compressed.
- My 25 year old F-1 Chrony finally died, RIP Chrony, so I couldn't get any velocities, es/sd, etc. but this load only left a few kernels in the barrel. Definitely an increase in recoil from the powder puff (PP) loads of the original load. RP standard large rifle primers, all loads.

2) 125 gr PCRN / 32 gr AA4350 over 3 gr BD. Cleaner still, but not much. Recoil similar to load 1 above.

3) 125 PCRN / 32 gr AA4350 over 4 gr BD. Increased recoil, primers still have rounded corners, no notable case expansion.

4) 125 PCRN / 32 gr AA4350 over 5 gr BD. Increased recoil Top edge of primer flat but edges still round. Very clean. No unburned powder kernels. I like this load. Recoil much less than my 130 grain Speer hp load with 32 grains AA2460, which kicks a bit and is a flame thrower as well.

5) 125 PCRN / 5 grains BD. This was a mistake as I forgot to charge the case with the AA4350. I didn't want to pull the bullet so I shot it last. This is a true PP or MF load. Recoils like a 22 LR, and I only saw 2 little flakes of unburned powder.

I need to get a new chronograph. Bummed about the old girl's passing, but she served me well. I want to chronograph my loads and start shooting for groups. I'd like to get a scope that's easy to remove and re-install for this 14" Contender. That way I can shoot 100-200 yard targets and then use the fixed sights for the plinking loads.

BTW, no leading at all with these powder coated boolits.