Sellier & Bellot Primers?

[USMC87]

S&B primers do the same job for me as any others, Our Cabelas has them in stock for 24.99 which is still a better buy than the others.

[kfarm]

"what did you measure with? An optical comparator? Zeiss cmm?"

WOW,is that sarcasm or what. Sure seems so but I used a 1" Mitutoyo Digimatic IP65 digital micrometer. Just trying to helpful.

[Beagle333]

Good price on em. I wish we had a Cabelas anywhere around here.

[A pause for the COZ]

I have 5000 of the SRP's I have not had any problems in full power loads or fast powder cast boolit loads. All have went bang as expected.

I did have had a issue when using them in 223 cast bullet loads with a lighter charge of slower powder.
Had a few fail to fire. Those loads needed a SRP mag primer.
So as long as you are not pushing the edges, They are fine.

[John Boy]

It amazes me that CZ company, Seller & Bellot has been in business since the 1850's. They are one of the major suppliers of primers in the International market ... and no one is whining over there that S&B primers are inferior for cup hardness or hard seating in cases. S&B's seat easily using the Lee Auto Primer - a single stage seater and in a Dillon 550B ... and have never had one that didn't go Bang
I have had more issues with Remington primers and I reload a couple thousand rounds a year!
PS: The cup hardness of S&B SP & LP are the same as Federal GM150 Match!

[A pause for the COZ]

was it the SPP wolf primers you had issues with? or LPP?

I believe that Wolf sent out a whole shipment of primers that were miss labeled.
Standard SRP's in mag primer boxes.
And SRP mag in boxes labeled Large pistol. I have some.

[SlippShodd]

Mike you talking about the Cabella's opening in Ammon? [I.F.]
if they are opening on the second I might make the trip up there to look the place over.

Sorry, Lamar, looks like your Ammon store doesn't open until May 14th, according to their map.
And I doubt this is a one-store-only promotion... have to wait and see what the general nationwide ads say next week. I think I get the ads early because of their Club membership. The flyer itself that the doorbuster ad was wrapped around doesn't go into effect until 4/30. I hope they give me a job after all this advertising I'm doing for them...

As to the Wolf primer issues I had, it was with small rifle magnum primers and a series of hangfires. I have some different test rounds loaded with them that I need to get out and shoot, but those initial tests were not very confidence inspiring. I may email Wolf and see if they'll replace the remainder.

mike

[firebrick43]

"what did you measure with? An optical comparator? Zeiss cmm?"

WOW,is that sarcasm or what. Sure seems so but I used a 1" Mitutoyo Digimatic IP65 digital micrometer. Just trying to helpful.

Yes it was sarcasm. I am sorry for that. As a machinist used to tolerances down to +\-8 microns which is +\- .0003" it sort of pisses me off when people list measurements down to .0005 using calipers or .00005 using mics. Now I know it's not really their fault but the manufactures fault. Mitutoyo seems to be the worst. I have several and they are good tools but no caliper is accurate to .0005 and very few mics are accurate to .00005". Mitutoyo should put that last digit on their digital tools. Only mics that are that precise are super precision gage lab mics(huge) and some tesa/brown and sharpe indicating micrometers

http://www.inspection.ie/media/catal...3_22-32-07.jpg

Even they need a gage block to set at your current temp as they are more of a comparator.

The heat from your hand or any temp from 72 degrees will affect measurements. I don't think that brass cups (primers) period could be truly measured accurately with a micrometer as the brass will deflect as they are closed and the deflection would vary between brands depending on thickness and hardness of the brass cup.
Hence the optical comparator would be required.

To check the parts I machine we have a million dollar Zeus cmm in a climate controlled and pressurized room. It's accurate down to 1 micron. (.00004"). Even it will read a tenth of a micron (.000004") however if you run the check 5 times you are likely to get 5 different readings to the tenth position. Some engineer will wig out that a part is .0032 (3.2 microns) when the tolerance is 3 microns. It takes a lot of arguing and time to prove to them to show that the tenth of a micron position is not accurate.

[firebrick43]

O, be careful with that mitutoyo mic. I have a 7-8" one that is used out at a lathe to measure the outside diameter. One day I noticed that the measurements were not matching the Zeiss report. We check the gage standard at the start of the shift and at 7" the digital screen is origined. Well the part is nearly 8" so the mic is opened up. The barrel is in inches but we are measuring in mm. So we didn't notice the discrepancy on measurement. Luckily the tolerance on this feature is quite large as it's just for clearance. Off to the gage lab it went. They are still trying to figure out how to get the digital screen to match the barrel at the point. The barrel is accurate to lab gage blocks but the digital display is not except at the gage standard length.

[gloob]

it sort of pisses me off when people list measurements down to .0005 using calipers or .00005 using mics.

When I list my caliper measurements, I put the extra effort to write it as 0.401 1/2, rather than .4015, to make it clear that my measurement only has resolution down to half a mil. Accuracy is a whole other matter.

[Virginia John]

I would love to get them for that price.

[ffries61]

Graf's has them for 24.99$ a K or 116.99 for 5K, Powder Valley is 22$ a K, but their shipping is higher, don'tknow which one figures cheaper, I live in KS so PV has to charge me sales tax, so I get them from Graf's, they have 7.95$ flat rate shipping(plus HazMat of course).

Fred

[truckerdave397]

what did you measure with? An optical comparator? Zeiss cmm?

I can eye ball them that close with a good yard stick.

[kfarm]

Some pondering ( long post )


Most of us are ordinary people with a common goal doing the best we can, as for me I'm just a row crop farmer (retired) not a uber professional who got their panties in a wad and feel they need to put the rest of us in our ordinary place.


Well you certainly put me in my place, a place which I guess you felt necessary to put me in.


Please disregard the measurements I posted or any measurements that I may post as they won't come up to your super duper equipment.


I agree that the micrometer I used is not the best, but its the best I have and I have found out that its good for me and for what most of us do.


The reason I listed the measurements to 5 places and not round off was to show the relative diameter of the different primers I had on hand. And since the discussion on S&B primers possibility being a different size than the common types we normally use.


This forum has more information for the cast bullet shooting community than any other place and I appreciate the information furnished by members. And yes I do my own research and make decisions accordingly as should everyone.


So instead of unnecessary criticism, sarcasm and uncalled for putdowns you should take this for what it is, a shooting forum a gathering of like minded people sharing common information.


73's to you and yours. Carroll

[firebrick43]

This forum has more information for the cast bullet shooting community than any other place and I appreciate the information furnished by members. And yes I do my own research and make decisions accordingly as should everyone.


So instead of unnecessary criticism, sarcasm and uncalled for putdowns you should take this for what it is, a shooting forum a gathering of like minded people sharing common information.

Maybe you missed the part where I said sorry and didn't blame you but the manufactures of metrology devices that try to infer accuracy by extra decimal places but in reality is not possible (nor in their specs).


So you don't want me to use sarcasm or put downs but call me an uber professional with my panties in a wad???


I was using my experience to educate you and other in my second description but evidently my apology wasn't enough. Or do you only want experience that doesn't contradict what you believe to be true?


As the son of a "simple" row crop, I am surprised to hear someone that has to manage millions in equipment and land, have to know soil sciences, mechanics, and commodities markets refer to themselves as so simple. Just 2 percent of the pop farm making you uncommonly successful and important to all of us.

Another simple farmer trained me as a machinist and I am eternally grateful for that.

[kfarm]

Ok, enough of the put downs and sarcasm. I'll admit I was a little short with your response (well maybe more than a little) but you have to admit that you came on a little strong. I think that if your first response would have had a bit of humor in it I'd not even have thought anything about it. Whereas I felt like the put down of simple tools that the majority of shooters would have is like (years ago) I was once told to test for traces of lead in the local water works (I worked as a civil engineer). When none was found the local heath department mandated we get a better gas chromatograph, I did, still found none. They insisted on yet a better chromatograph to find something that didn't exist. After the third unit they admitted no equipment existed at that time that was sensitive enough to find a none existing substance but we would have to get one once technology developed new test equipment. Turns out 30 years later equipment still not sensitive to find nothing. One of these days we will have equipment so sensitive it will find nothing. Don't know why I told that but our conversation made me remember. I'll not criticize you for being uber if you don't criticize for me reading my Japanese micrometer. Now let's get back to casting, loading and shooting. But you have to agree that looking at my readings the S&B's are a tad smaller and Tula's larger even if I got 1 maybe 2 decimal points extra. But its like reading 3+ places on a old worn out 10" log log slide rule with the numbers worn off. And that's the truth.
73's, Carroll

[firebrick43]

It's really hard to convey emotion with the written word. I wasnt trying to put down simple tools. It wasn't my intent. One of my hobbies is woodworking with all hand tools (except a track saw for long rips) and another is hobby farm with draft horses. Some people at work call me Amish for that. It's more For the disconnect really for being surrounded all day by technology. Don't even own a smart phone. Hell when most are standing around coming up with ideas on how to fixture up an odd part to repair I'll grab a caping chisel and a file and be done with it.

What makes primer cups hard to measure (IMHO) accurately with standard metrology equipment available to most reloaders also makes it really not that important. By design the cup is flexible and as long as you can seat it without it falling out or crushing it all is well. Force required to seat different brands can be your comparator as long as you don't throw in other variables such as different brands of brass.

[gloob]

It's good to have as many decimal places as possible. Is the absolute measurement down to the fifth place accurate? Most likely not, unless by sheer coincidence. But since he directly compared between different primers, using the same instrument, and in the same setting, and using the same methodology, and perhaps even averaging several measurements or at least doublechecking them once, then yes. It is relevent, useful, and appreciated information to me. The instrument can resolve things to that small a degree, and that gives it meaning, even if the absolute accuracy is off.

Pass along the reading to the rest of us. All of it. We can each, individually, decide how much salt to put on it. I can tell the instrument resolves to only a twentieth of a mil by the 0/5 on the end of every measurement, for instance.

[wrench man]

Holding the add in my grubby paw right now, the sale seems to be good at all the Cabela's stores?, my add is good for the Springfield and Tualatin Oregon stores, saw them on the shelf for the first time this afternoon?

[ukrifleman]

I trialled some 6.5x55 loads for my M96 Swede, using a mix of CCI 200 and S&B L/R primers.

Of the 8 test loads I produced with each brand of primer, the CCI loads were consistently slightly faster but, the S&B primers gave a much tighter extreme spread.

The most accurate load was with S&B primers.

All the test loads were loaded into Privi brass.

ukrifleman.