Here east of the Mississippi I’d think a 210gr at 1200fps would be more than adequate. Possibly the same boolit at around 1,000 for practice, plinking and pleasure.
Thanks for the info.
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Here east of the Mississippi I’d think a 210gr at 1200fps would be more than adequate. Possibly the same boolit at around 1,000 for practice, plinking and pleasure.
Thanks for the info.
Shooting a 210-250 gr cast bullet at velocities up to 1200 fps is " magnum territory ' . That is not what the 41 special was originally intended . A 200 gr bullet at less than 1000 fps was what Elmer Keith , Bill Jordan and Skeeter Skelton had in mind . I can tell you that your GP100 conversion will not last a long time shooting loads like that . Dave Clements and I had several talks about the conversions . He said the Ruger would out last the S&W conversion , but still not very long when pushing the velocity beyond what the idea of a 41 special was meant to be . Dave Clements had been doing that conversion for years and he had first hand knowledge what lasted the longest and what didn't . I expect " naysayers " to argue the point . I personally will take Mr Clements word over the word of " others " . Regards Paul
...except for being able to shoot the gun without moon clips for ejection...probably nothing.Originally Posted by Rick R
The Ruger GP-100 in 10mm is one of the finest handgun/caliber combinations ever made. If that combination had been available back in the 1960s there would have been no need for a .41 Magnum. Would have been the perfect LE handgun.
Wide range of power available from .40 S&W to over the top 10mm
Fast reloading
4 clips of ammo could have been carried in two speedloader pouches
Moderate weight and bulk compared to a S&W N-frame
If Starline could bring out a 10mm AR that would fit the GP100 and S&W revolvers they would sell a ton of brass and make the 10mm revolver even more popular...
They say they’ll do it if someone orders enough, I don’t think my wife would be happy if the big brown truck dropped off 25 cases of empty brass.
I bought my 10mm GP100 as a fun gun after owning an SR1911 in 10mm. However the revolver has become a favorite.
Once 10mm revolver guys find out about the 10mm Magnum 'conversion,' done by means of reaming the cylinder chambers to Magnum length, they have a three caliber wheelgun: .40S&W, 10mm AUTO, and 10mm Mag, all loadable with the same moon clips.
Several wheelgun 'smiths have done this conversion, mostly on S&W 610s though. Gary Reeder and Hamilton Bowen, to name two. Not sure if Clements offered the conversion.
The man asked what he can get "appreciable better" vs what he listed he already had, and I gave him the appreciable better part ... any less would be pointless waiting 2yrs for. 41special can be downloaded (or mid-loaded) however you want to word it, but the others can't be increased heavier to match the same performance a special can. That's what gives it the appreciable better sentiment vs lesser calibers.
You're right though, the single sixes & ultralight-weights that the boutique guys are building ARE NOT intended for 1200fps 250's, but those weren't ever the guns intended for the original project by Keith et'all either back in the day. They were looking for midframe style carry weights and gun-strength in margins to handle their round reliably. For the longhaul. In a light-enough but heavy enough gun that wouldn't pound officers. They wanted the thing balanced to match what the round should do. I sincerely think those ultralight specials are pushing boundaries of platform capabilities, but definitely not the 41special chambering capabilities.
Now, I don't mean the special should be fully matching 1450+ true magnum peak-performance, I am talking to let the thing run up to the special-level max performance that tops out nipping the heels of mag-levels (as it can). 1200fps is the magic comfortable maximum in them. It isn't at all a false argument either, for what the power-efficiency point should rightly sit at in 41 special if the gunner thinks about case capacity and bore. If someone wants to casterate the thing, and really talk neutered loadings, look up what a 45cowboy-special is ... chamberings like THAT were the type meant for puff wheat loads to shoot 7-up cans in the backyard. The 41 special is far too good of a cartridge to have it's nuts cut just because "some" gunsmiths deem a 22-frame proper for the round. It ain't the cartridge that's out of place in those circumstances, and I wholeheartedly disagree that under 1000 is where the 41special should be standardized. There are pages & pages of other existing calibers which fit that bill. No sense shouldering this one as one-more among them too. For sure it'll never see the light of day from any factory if its just approached as another of a thousand that already don't sell for companies..
Have to think of the 41special that-way, to really make the most of it with hopes it ever goes someplace. It can potentially become what the 44special never has, by sammi standards.. this one has the merits to stand on to actually BE (by numbers) what the 44special should have been but never was. IF it's done right.
101% agree...the .41 Special if ever SAAMI approved should be no less than a 30K psi rating. Someone wants to pay $3K to have a Single-Six .41 Special have a nice time...but the rest of us would rater have a mid-frame DA or SA gun that can run 1200 fps...
As to the 10mm Magnum conversion...to me useless. If you read the GunBlast article where Jeff Quinn had his GP100 so modified he then was getting misfires with 10mm...reason being is that the OEM clips were only made for ejection purposes as the rounds were headspacing on the case mouth. One then has to get "thick clips" from Ranch Products or TK Custom to reliably use 10mm as one has to to shoot .40 S&W. One also looses the ability to shoot 10mm from the gun without clips...and to gain what.... With full bore 10mm ammo the gun is already a handful...and I want to add more recoil and muzzleblast...no thanks...
Bob
10mm Mag conversions on S&W 610s never had misfires. But the conversion really makes sense only on the longer barreled revolvers anyway, as a dedicated hunting handgun and general boonies howitzer.
That means a 5" or 6.5" 610 or possibly the 6.5" Ruger 10mm SRH. The larger frame and longer tube add weight, plus barrel-length is critical to putting the knock-down ballistics of the 10mm Magnum into fur.
Better than a .41 Mag, per John Taffin.
More here: http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt10mag.htmThe 10mm Magnum has definite applications as a hunting pistol and a long range silhouette pistol. Shooting informally at long ranges of 100 to 200 meters and using rocks as targets convinced me of this. Anything the .41 Magnum can do, the 10mm Magnum can also do and perhaps do it even a little faster and a little better. That is a tough confession for an old sixgun man to make.
Obviously you need to hit the gym more often, especially the wrist exercises.With full bore 10mm ammo the gun is already a handful...and I want to add more recoil and muzzleblast...no thanks...
You can thank me later.
Last edited by Nick Adams; 01-30-2021 at 12:50 PM.
I think I see some utility in both ways of thinking. If I can occasionally load 210gr bullets up to 1200fps and heavier boolits over 1000fps with the knowledge that I’m paying with more wear on a GP or L sized frame and I can load lighter sub 1000fps loads for 90% of killing cans, small game or even self defense loads then I’m basically using a .38 Special in a “K” frame where service life with normal ammo is pretty much unlimited but +P or +P+ is going accelerate wear.
***** edited to remove off topic noise *****
I don’t own a .41 Mag, have no dies, brass or bullets, I do have two 10mm guns and dies along with ample brass, bullets, boolits and molds. The 10mm with a 200gr WFN will anchor any critter in my neck of the woods but for some reason the .41 Special is intriguing.
I may be in trouble...
Last edited by Rick R; 02-01-2021 at 06:36 PM.
Nick..my point entirely... Only talking about the GP-100, not one of the heavier framed guns.
Guys lets get back on topic .41 mag or special. Take the 10mm and .40 S&W discussion to a separate thread.
Steve,
Life Member NRA
Colorado Rifle Club member
Rocky Mtn Gun Owners member
NAGR member
...agreed....
Good idea.........
...Dixie...have you shot that new custom New Frontier any more?
A little but I need to load a few more .41spls and really wring it out. I'm having a hard time adapting to the Bisley hammer.........
Think the only Bisley hammered gun I have left is the Reeder custom... Had several other .41s, .44, .45 .32s and .22s but all went down the road...
OK 41 fans, which Arsenal mold should I get (and why) for my 41 Mag? Plinking and hunting.
Welcome Mr. BMW.....
That is a pretty broad question as you didn't indicate what kind of gun the boolits will be shot from, velocity range and what animals to be hunted...
I like the 41-220-RF. It has the widest meplat for hunting, doesn't go too far into the case so you can get plenty of velocity, and the nose length will allow loads to fit into any cylinder.
Thanks RJM - 5 1/2" Bisley. Mild to full magnum. Arsenal offers seven 41 molds, so I'm looking for opinions on which of them the experts here might lean towards. Great thread you started here. I just didn't see much mention of Arsenal molds, so I was curious what the opinions were on them for our 41s.
black mamba - thanks that's the type information I am looking for.
Last edited by BMW Rider; 02-03-2021 at 04:25 PM.
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