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Thread: .41 Magnum / 41 Special Load Data Center

  1. #781
    Boolit Master



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    The good thing about SAs is the barrels are basically strait and don't have to have an ejector rod lug machined. .410 ID barrels are readily available, so there should not be a lot of wait time like a re-bore. I think you have a good plan.....
    JMHO-YMMV
    dd884
    gary@2texastrucks.com
    Gary D. Peek

  2. #782
    Boolit Master Wheelguns 1961's Avatar
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    Thanks for the feedback. Do you know approximately how much barrel blank I would need for a 5 1/2”-6” barrel? I was researching twist rate. I see that factory rugers go from 1/16-1/20. Any thoughts?
    Due to the price of primers, warning shots will no longer be given!

  3. #783
    Boolit Master



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    A good smith wouldn't waste much length. As far as twist that should work unless you want to use very heavy Bullets. Some here use some 250 to 270gr and get good results. Of course I don't know what their twist rate is...........
    JMHO-YMMV
    dd884
    gary@2texastrucks.com
    Gary D. Peek

  4. #784
    Boolit Master Wheelguns 1961's Avatar
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    Thanks again for the good info!
    Due to the price of primers, warning shots will no longer be given!

  5. #785
    Boolit Man
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    16 will properly spin a 250/260 at 41special speeds, gives clean cut holes and great accuracy too. I had keyholing in mine with slower twist barrels so swapped for a standard 1:16 and never a blink of trouble since.

  6. #786
    Boolit Master


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    Good evening to all you .41 magnum enthusiasts.
    It's been quite a spell since I've been on the Cast Boolits forum, with any regularity.
    Anyway, been doing a lot of reading up on my favorite handgun cartridge, the Remington .41 magnum. Bought my first .41 handgun in 1969. Actually, it was my first handgun at all, at the ripe old age of 18. It was the Ruger BH with the 4 5/8" barrel. I started reloading for it just as soon as I could afford and pick up a set of dies, and all the componants necessary. I was working my first real job for 3.00 per hour as a welder/fabricator for General Trailer in Springfield, Oregon.
    So, I loaded and shot and loaded and shot that Ruger for years. Then in the early 1970's I saved up enough money to buy myself a Smith & Wesson mod. 57 with the 6 1/2" barrel. Boy, she was a beauty. I paid exactly 250.00. I have taken two deer with the S & W. One doe, and one spike buck. Both about 50 yards, and both with 8 grains of Unique under the Lyman 410459. One shot each, both slugs went completely through. The doe was a behind the shoulder hit. She took about ten steps and fell over. The spike was hit high in the spine above the shoulder, and dropped.
    Fast forward to the present. Been loading up some rounds last week, using up some of my odds and ends. Finally had a break in the rain and a warmer day of 55°. Went to the gun club today to do some chronographing of the loads.
    These loads are just FYI. They shot well in my S & W 57 with no issues, and I'm just relaying my results.
    Loads tested.
    #1:
    Laser Cast Tru-shot 265gr. Lead Flat Point GC.
    18.9grains H-110 average vel. 1193 fps.
    #2:
    Ranch Dog 255 gr. GC. Actual weight sized .410 lubed/gc'd 270 gr.
    18.9grains H-110 average vel. 1244 fps.
    #3:
    260 gr. Unknown make. Lead Flat Point GC.
    18.9 grains H-110 average vel. 1165 fps.
    #4:
    210 gr. Sierra JHP.
    18.8 grains Alliant 2400 average vel. 1326 fps.
    #5:
    Lyman 410459 220 gr. SWC WW+2% w/plain base GC.
    19.6 grains Alliant 2400 average vel. 1391 fps.
    #6:
    Lyman 410459 220 gr. SWC WW+2% w/plain base GC.
    7 grains RedDot average vel. 1031 fps.
    #7
    45 Colt load. Uberti: "Evil Roy" 5.5" barrel.
    Lyman 454424 255 grain SWC.
    9 grains Herco average vel. 931fps.
    So, that was my entertainment for the day. The reason for the 18.9 grain loads for
    the first three .41 loads is, that is what my particular #20 Lil'dandy rotor drops.
    All empty cases ejected easily. There was some flattening of primers in the heavy loads, but they had rounded edges as well. I do not use flattened primers as a main pressure sign. Just one of many signs to add to the total pressure sign assessment.
    Thank you for the information y'all have posted.
    Regards
    Last edited by littlejack; 01-24-2020 at 11:44 PM.

  7. #787
    Boolit Master
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    Glad to see you over here Jack...and thanks for all the load information...

    1961...generally smiths have barrel blanks in stock...call someone like Jack or one of the other smiths before you bother buying anything... He can also tell you what parts will fit on what frames and which will need modification to fit...

    Before you call sit down and write everything out and it will make it a lot easier not to forget anything...

    Bob

  8. #788
    Boolit Master Wheelguns 1961's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM52 View Post
    Glad to see you over here Jack...and thanks for all the load information...

    1961...generally smiths have barrel blanks in stock...call someone like Jack or one of the other smiths before you bother buying anything... He can also tell you what parts will fit on what frames and which will need modification to fit...

    Before you call sit down and write everything out and it will make it a lot easier not to forget anything...

    Bob
    Thank you for the advice!
    Due to the price of primers, warning shots will no longer be given!

  9. #789
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM52 View Post
    Glad to see you over here Jack...and thanks for all the load information...

    1961...generally smiths have barrel blanks in stock...call someone like Jack or one of the other smiths before you bother buying anything... He can also tell you what parts will fit on what frames and which will need modification to fit...

    Before you call sit down and write everything out and it will make it a lot easier not to forget anything...

    Bob
    Thank you Bob for the welcome.
    As I was checking velocities yesterday, again I noticed something that has
    happened multiple time in the past years with the H-110 powder. Noticing the top
    three loads of yesterday, they all have a charge of 18.9 grains. Also notice the
    Ranch Dog slug running faster than the other two heavy weights. Actually, the
    Ranch Dog weighed 5 grains more than the Laser Cast @ 265 grains, and 10
    grains more the the 260 grain "unknown make" boolit. The deciding factor for the
    velocity difference is the seating depth of each individual bullet.The power charge
    of 18.9 of H-110 comes to .500 +/- from the top of the case.The 260 grain slug
    seats and crimp at .350, leaving .150 space between powder and bullet. I didn't
    measure the Laser Cast, but the crimp grooves were within a few thousanths of
    the 260 grain.The Ranch Dog seating depth was .485, leaving only .015 +/- space.
    So, even though the powder charges were the same, the powder combustion was
    confined to a tighter space.
    H-110 performs better and will burn more efficiently with a slight increase in
    powder charge, and better up to max loads and gives more velocity than
    expected. So, the extra powder adds some velocity, but the smaller combustion
    chamber helps make it burn more efficiently.
    That's just my own personal observation with the H-110 powder.
    Regards
    Last edited by littlejack; 01-25-2020 at 03:20 AM.

  10. #790
    Boolit Master


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    Oops, sumpin went wrong with my format?

  11. #791
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    .41 Magnum / 41 Special Load Data Center

    Littlejack, I’m still new to reloading and I am struggling to get acceptable groups with my Henry 20” rifle. I have tried cast/pc 210 grain SWC as well as Sierra 210 JHC, with several powders such as A2400, Accurate 9, H110 and even a few with Unique, all except the Unique right in your powder range. WLP primers. COL = 1.685. Best groups so far have been with 20 gr. of H110, 2” at 50 yards. I would be satisfied with 2” at 100.
    After reading your last post I am wondering if I should try to stuff some dacron filler into the case and see if it helps with the 210’s.
    I have a buddy in Tennessee that has tried out the heavier boolits in his Henry rifle and his results are good. I am looking forward to trying some myself but I don’t have ready access to a range—he shoots off his porch.
    Thanks to the OP and admin for running and maintaining this informative thread.
    —Griff

  12. #792
    Boolit Master


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    Good morning Griff.
    Are you shooting your Henry with iron sights, or do you have it scoped? I would be very happy with 2" groups at 50 yards. Those days are long gone behind me with my 70 year old eyes. I have most of my firearms scoped now days except for my 45acp's and my Uberti 45 Colt.
    As far as your Henry rifle goes, unless you have a scope on it, I would accept the 2"groups at 50 yards. Also, there's the accuracy ability of the firearm that has to be taken into consideration. I had a Marlin 1894 in 41 magnum in 1991. In one moment of temporary insanity, I sold it. My *** still has bruises on it from me kicking it so often. It was very capable of 2" groups at 50 yards, but my eyesight was so much better back then. I have never shot the Henry, it I would think that they would be very good firearms, or the company wouldn't still be in business.
    As for adding some dacron to take up the space under the seated bullet, "I wouldn't recommend doing that". In theory it may work, but unless you have a way of checking pressures, it's not advisable. Also, I would think that velocities would be inconsistent and erratic. Reloaders have for decades, been adding dacron, kapock, creme of wheat and other fillers to their light loaded cast bullet rifle loads to hold the powder charges in place. That is quite a different situation.
    IMHO, I really do not think you have a problem. You just need to do more R&D with your powders and charge weights. Also, I don't know the condition of your eye sight, but if you need that 2"group at 100 yards, you may have to go with a scope on your Henry. I've been shooting ever since I was ten years old, and belonged to a few gun clubs. I've seen hundreds of people that couldn't shoot 2" groups with their fine scoped bolt action rifles.
    Regards
    Last edited by Minerat; 01-26-2020 at 01:46 PM. Reason: language censor correction

  13. #793
    Boolit Master
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    ...littlejack...sold a Marlin...we should commit you!!!


    As to H110...I've found that if the bullet base sits right on top of the powder eliminating any air space the loads have the highest safe velocity and the lowest shot to shot velocity variation..

    How much powder goes in just depends on the crimp groove to base of the bullet depth.

    Cast Performance used to have two .41s, a 250 and a 255. The 250 is the bullet that CorBon and Federal use in their loads. The 255 will take 22.0 grains but the 250 only 20 grains.

    I do the same thing with jacketed or cast bullets... No pressure signs in any of my guns including S&Ws...cases just about fall out.

    I have a dowel of about .40" and sit it next to the bullet. Put my thumbnail on the dowel at the crimp groove and then fill the case till when I put the dowel in the bottom of the dowel touches the powder. Then weigh the powder charge and compare it to loading books...

    Have use that method for .357 and .44 Magnum with no problems...do not try this with any other powder.

    As to accuracy with .41 Carbines...haven't really shot that much over 50 yards with mine but they usually run an inch to an inch and a half. My guns have not liked target velocity loads...full loads only.

    50 yards sitting, no sling, Marlin 1894 CCL with peepsights. 255 CP with 22.0 of H110. (and like jack my eyes are now 68 years old not going to be doing this again)

    Click image for larger version. 

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  14. #794
    Boolit Mold
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    I agree with your buddy on a heavier bullet. My Marlin 41FG likes a LBT 230gr WFN. I know mine has a microgroove barrel, but a heavier bullet would be my next try. You might also try a larger diameter. My eyesight sucks so I went with a Burris Fastfire III. 100 yard groups run either side of 2 inches from a benchrest. Love those 41's.

  15. #795
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    Great info on the forgotten magnum here.
    I have to ask, when is it appropriate to use magnum pistol primers? I’ve not bothered with them at all but if they could possibly help shrink my groups to 6gunz size at 100 yards, I would be happy to try them.

  16. #796
    Boolit Master


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    I had read a post from another forum, (that I don't recall) that stated what Bob has posted about the amount H110 touching the base of the bullet being safe.
    So, this morning, I checked this out. The bullet was the Lyman 220 grain 410459. For this to be as stated, the case needs to be filled to .345 from the top of the case. Weighing the powder charge results in a weight of 25.5 grains. IMHO, that's to much steam in the boiler for me to pull the trigger on. For the Ranch Dog slug, the case needs filled to be filled to .485 from the top. This charge weighed 21 grains. That may not be a max charge of H-110 powder, but its gotta be close. Without pressure equipment testing, I wouldn't be advertising that this is a safe practice. Especially to a beginner that has not worked up from a lighter starting charge.
    Seeing as how I don't hunt anymore, I can slow things down some. But also in my first post, I stated I took two mule deer with the 410459 bullet over 8 grains of Unique, with complete penetration. So just maybe, we dont need the 1300 to 1500 fps. My 57 S&W still locks up good and tight after almost 50 years. I have switched from 8 grains of Unique, to 9 grains of Herco for my go to play loads. I use the Herco also in my heavy slug 45acp loads, as well as my 255 - 265 grain 45 Colt loads in my Uberti.
    Regards
    Last edited by littlejack; 01-27-2020 at 01:05 AM.

  17. #797
    Boolit Mold
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    Griff, Hodgdon recommends a magnum primer for H110, it's a ball powder and harder to light. For all faster powders I use a regular primer. You know the old saying, "Fit is King", I would slug your barrel and measure with a micrometer to find out exactly what your bore size is. Then size or order your bullets accordingly. Like I said, my Marlin likes larger diameter bullets. Lube is also more important in a rifle because the barrel is longer, you need more and better lube than used in a six-gun. I always mount a scope for load development until I find a good full power load and an accurate fun midrange load. Depending on your eyesight, I would then install a Skinner peep or a Burris Fastfire. I have to do that because of my wonderful 60 year old eyes that I can't see too well out of. Good luck and keep experimenting. Taking mine on another hog hunt in three weeks.

  18. #798
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    Thank you, gentlemen. Will do as advised.

  19. #799
    Boolit Master
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    I too have a Henry 16.5" .41. So far all I have used in it is a Miha cast modifies hp gc pc'd over 19.5 of N110 with a Fed 155 primer. MZV is 1778. so far at 100 yards it is 3+ inches. Mine has a Weaver 1x3 scope. This basically what I started with and I have stayed with it. I killed one doe at 80 yards or so in a field. She made a couple of hops and down. The bullet did fine, thru and thru mussed up the hair and a hole that was inch+ on the exit.
    The n110 leaves nickeled hulls blacked some but no more room for more. The Henry is a neat little gun.

  20. #800
    Boolit Master
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    littlejack...I think I have that Lyman mold but not sure if I have any bullets cast up with it right now.... That does sound like a bit much of H110 behind that. All of the bullets I use between 200 and 300 grains be they jacketed or cast run from 18 for a 300 grain SSK to 23 grains for several of the 210 JHPs. The only bullet I use that takes more than that is the 180 Sierra that will take 26.5 gains that shoot fine in all my guns but a 10" TC Contender, but 26.0 shoots fine so that is the load I standardized on...

    But you are correct...really we don't "need" any more power than a 210 at 1000-1100 fps. I mainly use the heavy loads for long range target shooting in SA guns...

    Bob

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check