38-55 Winchester: Bullet 375248 dilemma, alloy mix to match load, groove.

[nitro-express]

My rifle is a 94 Commemorative in 38-55, and I'm taking the foray into new territory, casting my own bullets and working up a load. I've done some research and when I applied it to the task the results had me puzzled.

I have WW metal, probably 20 year old stuff so I assume it has about 3% Sb. I also have 20 pounds of Babbitt that I smelted down into ingots. It's tin based Babbitt and it contains copper, definitely plugs the spout. I use it as a source of tin. I also have old bullets from my buddy that may be lino, that I use to bring up the Sb %. I blended up a mixture that should be #2 clone, and cast up some bullets with a used 375248 that I found in my box of tricks. I selected, by weight, enough to size/lube/load, @ 242 gr. They cast just a whisker over 377, barely big enough to size. A quick check puts my groove more in the 380 region.

I loaded up a few with 20 gr of SR4759, and they came out @ 1535 fps, ES=27.6, SD=10.9, but I did get some leading in the throat. I went down in powder but my ES/SD went into the toilet, but the leading went down. I tried some loads with H4198, but the ES/SD was ****. I did not shoot any targets, just chrono out the back door, not at the range.

So, my thinking was that the alloy was too soft, and it did seem soft, but they were just freshly cast as well (hours). I still had a few bullets that I hadn't melted down, and they seemed softer than lino. My bad for not checking before melting.

I think that I may need a bullet that is softer, so it can obturate, and load with a faster powder for about 1000 fps. Or try a harder alloy. I'm leaning to mixing up some 1/16 or 1/10, or perhaps pure lead !!!

My mold is a challenge, I had to wail on it to get the bullets to release. I gave it a tune-up as per an article I read, and it seems to work better.

Or is this bullet never going to work.

I checked my brass and chamber, 377 is about as big as I should go, if I want the ammo to feed.

I do have a load with 375449, with gas checks, that works, unfortunately I do not have that mold, I'm just using up the bullets that came with the rifle.

Perhaps I have to buy a new mold, a 375449, or perhaps something from Accurate Molds.

This project is worth while to me as I like the rifle, and the caliber is a fun shoot.

At this point I'm a bit frustrated and confused.

Picture is of my 2 commemorative rifles, a Bat Masterson in 30-30 and a Saskatchewan Diamond Jubilee in 38-55. Both are shooters, not collectors. Some sources say that Bat was born in Canada, and I watched the TV show when I was a kid, so its a keeper. The Sask was a good deal, in a caliber that I wanted to try, and it is a good companion for Bat, so its a keeper as well.

[Calamity Jake]

First thing is to have that 38-55 throated so you can load a bigger boolit, like .380-.381
then you can beagle that 375248 to get a bigger boolit, you may also need a bigger expander
to accommodate the bigger boolit.

A little dacron filler over your powder of choice may help the leading if you chose to shoot that
.377 boolit, do a search for dacron filler on this sight.
You may also want to cast a softer boolit so it will orbate(MS) to seal a little better.

[runfiverun]

the filler will also settle down the slower load and even out your velocity variations.

I would just wait about 10-12 days then re-check your hardness, and go from there.
all your doing right now is chasing your tail.
I size to 379 for my 375 Winchesters.

[mehavey]

Go soft, 30:1/BHN~5.5 as max hardness.
That will help seal up the throat with those undersize bullets.

[nitro-express]

That's a bit softer than I had in mind, thanks.

And it feels like I'm chasing my tail.

[mehavey]

That's a bit softer than I had in mind, thanks.

And it feels like I'm chasing my tail.

Honest, you want it soft:


Velocity: 1,304±06

[country gent]

If you have a load that works I wouldnt change much with the rife. The old cartridges ( Black powder rounds) seem to do better with the softer alloies. In my 40s and 45 I normally use 20-1 lead tin ( my 38-55 is still in pieces parts, waiting to be put together). SLug the barrel and see what size you need to size the bullet to. Buffalo Arms has a selection of 20-1 cast bullets lubed with SPG maybe try some diffrent bullets before buying the new mould. Find what works and then buy the mould for it. SIze of the bullet will be very important. also make sure your sizing die isnt sizing the case to small and swaging your bullets down smaller.

[nitro-express]

If you have a load that works I wouldnt change much with the rife. The old cartridges ( Black powder rounds) seem to do better with the softer alloies. In my 40s and 45 I normally use 20-1 lead tin ( my 38-55 is still in pieces parts, waiting to be put together). SLug the barrel and see what size you need to size the bullet to. Buffalo Arms has a selection of 20-1 cast bullets lubed with SPG maybe try some diffrent bullets before buying the new mould. Find what works and then buy the mould for it. SIze of the bullet will be very important. also make sure your sizing die isnt sizing the case to small and swaging your bullets down smaller.

We have a Canadian outfit, Cactus Plains Ammunition, that has a 265 gr bullet they size from 377 > 379, that may be an option. I've emailed them to see how hard they are. I have a load that works with the bullets I got with the rifle, unfortunately when the bullets are gone, they're gone. The guy that cast them and owned the mold is no longer with us. The Cactus ones may be a suitable replacement, and 250 of them cost less than a mold.

I tried my mold this afternoon, no more wailing on it. The bullets were poop as with the wind blowing and with the temp @ 0C (32F) it was pretty hard warming up anything. I do like my old plumbers pot, holds 12 pounds and melts stuff fast.

Thanks for the help, and advice.

[.22-10-45]

In my original Winchester High-Wall .38-55, I have always used 20-1 pure lead-tin alloy with both black and smokeless. Groove dia. .379..shooting a .380 dia. nose-pour copy of 375248 (Leeth Mould). I did have to thin necks to allow seating this dia. bullet. I have found best smokeless accuracy with IMR 4227. This was a black powder designed ctg. and the nominal .377 bullet was obturated to groove dia. when the black powder light came on.

[mehavey]

...always used 20-1 pure lead-tin alloy.

20:1 is still "pretty darn soft" when considered against the craze of 'hard-is-good/real-hard-is-real-good' these days.
(Actual measured)

[Prodigal Son]

Here's how this load is working!

[MT Chambers]

The bullets pictured will be way too hard for the 38/55 and are undersized, if your bore is .380" then you would be well advised to try a .381" soft cast bullet to start, then maybe work your way up to faster and harder. I do not believe there is any place for "Hard" cast bullets in a 38/55 when BHN is around 22 or so.

[Prodigal Son]

Maybe if JES rebored a rifle for you and the bore is .375 it would work! Not some vintage rifle where there were no standards being held to!

[nitro-express]

In my original Winchester High-Wall .38-55, I have always used 20-1 pure lead-tin alloy with both black and smokeless. Groove dia. .379..shooting a .380 dia. nose-pour copy of 375248 (Leeth Mould). I did have to thin necks to allow seating this dia. bullet. I have found best smokeless accuracy with IMR 4227. This was a black powder designed ctg. and the nominal .377 bullet was obturated to groove dia. when the black powder light came on.

Thanks, sort of reinforces my take on the whole adventure. My 285 gr bullet has a gas check, and it is sized to 379, and it works with H4198 @ 1360 fps. In other words, it has enough pressure to obturate, consistent velocity, no leading. Same bullet with H4895, not enough pressure to obturate. The bullet seems close to #2. I'm confident that I'll find a combo for the 375249, but I'm not casting until the weather warms up.

I made some beeswax muffins today, was as careful as I could be, still heard complaints about the yellow dots on the counter. Oh well, such is the life of a reloader.