Finally! A breakthrough in my coating process

[jwber]

So with those mats do you just kinda fold them up and all the dried over spray breaks up?

[Dragonheart]

So with those mats do you just kinda fold them up and all the dried over spray breaks up?

Actually, I just wad them up and squeeze a sponge , that's pretty much it. Any remaining light powder residue doesn't pose a problem as it will just stick to the base of the bullets in the next batch, you won't even notice unless you change color. If the residue really bothers you, scrub them with one of the plastic dish scrubbers as metal can damage the silicone. As I have said, I am still using the first set I started with as these sheets are soft and flexible, but very tough.

[skeletorsarmory]

I had to overcome my phobia of double handling bullets.

I coat on regular foil and transfer the bullets from there to my paper lined baking tray

I fought and fought the idea of not double handling the bullets.

I manipulated temp, powder brand EVERYTHING and finally came to the conclusion that baking on the surface you coat on = tags

Do you transfer by hand or hemostats/pliers?

[Dragonheart]

Do you transfer by hand or hemostats/pliers?

I handle my bullets with a pair of normally closed stainless tweezers I purchased at Harbor Freight. I ground the ends down so that I can grab at the lube grooves or at the nose on hollow points. (see attached photo) The tweezers will grab the bullet firmly and not leave a mark, but I guess
I don't see the benefit of using a powder gun over my tumbling method, maybe someone can please explain it to me?
Attachment 136977

[coffeeguy]

I don't see the benefit of using a powder gun over my tumbling method, maybe someone can please explain it to me?
Attachment 136977

The only 'advantage' I've ever found with using an ESPC gun is that you get a more uniform coating, once you get a feel for it...Dry tumbling works 'right out of the box' so to speak.

There are also some colors which don't coat well with dry tumble, but coat fine with ESPC gun, but they're few and far in between. Nice tweezers by the way, I use a similar setup myself. The benefit I found from using gloves is that if there's a bare spot, you can roll the boolit gently between your fingers and it evens out the coating; the tweezers are a timesaver though.

[Dragonheart]

The only 'advantage' I've ever found with using an ESPC gun is that you get a more uniform coating, once you get a feel for it...Dry tumbling works 'right out of the box' so to speak.

There are also some colors which don't coat well with dry tumble, but coat fine with ESPC gun, but they're few and far in between. Nice tweezers by the way, I use a similar setup myself. The benefit I found from using gloves is that if there's a bare spot, you can roll the boolit gently between your fingers and it evens out the coating; the tweezers are a timesaver though.

I have never used a gun, but my take is I would have to handle the bullets more, which would equate to a lot more time spent. I would have to set the bullets up to spray coat, then move the coated bullet to the tray for cooking. I would also assume I would have a gun to clean, compressor and hose to put away, etc. In addition it would appear that I would be working with smaller batches using the gun, since I now tumble approximately 400 bullets at a time and run three batches before I cook all three. So I am completing about 1200+ coated bullets in a session ready to go to my "Ram Chucker" for sizing.

You are right about the powder color having a big effect on the coating. I know from my construction days that you will use twice as much yellow paint to get the same coverage as using a different color and I found that to be true with yellow powder as well. I could not get good coverage using yellow in a single coat. I am using Prismatic Powders and so far all have given good results with tumbling, but Bubba Blue, Sweet Plum and Ink Black powders are giving me the best one coat coverage.

[Ronnie Dale]

What kind of thickness are you able to coat onto a bullet using the tumble methiods?

I am applying up to .003" in one shot

[coffeeguy]

Tried preheating prior to tumbling, and .452 boolits baked out at .465 which was a no-go. Heated them too much...On average without preheating I get between .002 and .005 increase in boolit diameter which comes out to .001-.0025 thickness.

Qualifying that with the fact that your garden-variety $19.95 micrometer or electronic calipers isn't going to provide true accuracy down to .0005...The thing is to use the SAME micrometer/calipers when comparing measurements.

[retread]

I had to overcome my phobia of double handling bullets.

I coat on regular foil and transfer the bullets from there to my paper lined baking tray

I fought and fought the idea of not double handling the bullets.

I manipulated temp, powder brand EVERYTHING and finally came to the conclusion that baking on the surface you coat on = tags

The idea of handling the boolits twice has never seemed desirable to me. I use a baking tray that has a raised surface with tapped holes in which I screw in 10-32 socket head cap crews. I place the boolits on the heads of the screws and spray. They are well grounded and as you can see the PC has evenly flowed around the perimeter of the base. I hit the tops of the screw heads with a coarse file (lightly) ever so often to make sure the lead has good contact with the screw top. This method has be serving me well for over 2 years now.

[Dragonheart]

What kind of thickness are you able to coat onto a bullet using the tumble methiods?

I am applying up to .003" in one shot

I have never measured the coating thickness, which is probably not a bad idea. I have always judged my coating as an end result as to whether the coating covered the rings of the bullet completely and was not overly thick to complicate sizing. The only way I have ever been able to get a one coat coverage was to preheat the pan of bullets to 200 degrees before dropping them into the already running tumbler with the powder and black plastic Airsoft pellets. If you go much hotter (250 degrees) on the preheat the powder will start to melt and at best you will end up with too much coating or at worst a sticky ball of bullets. Since I live in the Gulf Coast of Texas, high humidity is a problem most of the year diminishing the static electricity effect, which allows the tumbling method to work. The attached photo is a sample of my tumbled one coat coverage after sizing.
Attachment 137412

[coffeeguy]

Retread, definitely a great idea for cutting down on any flash...For those without a tap and die set (a lot of screws will cut their own threads anyway if the hole diameter is close enough) you can use those short self-tapping sheetmetal screws (hex head/Phillips head combination). The sheetmetal shop where I work is constantly generating scraps of sheet aluminum from .040 to .10 inch thick which is adequate enough...The screw shanks act as standoffs underneath the tray when setting on a solid surface and don't interfere with the oven shelf grid.

It's neat to see threads like this go through cycles where information is repeated...it helps us all and it's neat to see what improvements members come up with as this process evolves!

[Dragonheart]

The idea of handling the boolits twice has never seemed desirable to me. I use a baking tray that has a raised surface with tapped holes in which I screw in 10-32 socket head cap crews. I place the boolits on the heads of the screws and spray. They are well grounded and as you can see the PC has evenly flowed around the perimeter of the base. I hit the tops of the screw heads with a coarse file (lightly) ever so often to make sure the lead has good contact with the screw top. This method has be serving me well for over 2 years now.

I like your method and if I ever decide to try using a gun yours appears to be the best solution to double handling and eliminating the skin on the base of the bullet. The skin on the bullet's base creates a feeding problem with my improvised bullet feeder on my Dillon 650 press. Using my tumble powder coating method and bevel base bullet designs has allowed me to run my bullet feeder close to 100% reliable, as cast lubed bullets won't work at all. The only other problem I would have with the gun method is the volume of bullets produced. When shooting weekly IDPA matches, practicing and having a wife that likes to shoot I need a quantity of bullets.

[Ronnie Dale]

It's not really that big a deal for me to transfer the bullets from one tray to another. I've got 20min to kill while my oven baked the previous batch and the PC application only takes a few seconds

[Stilly]

I had the reynolds wrap nonstick foil too. But I had TWO different trays, both were made for the same oven, but different sizes. ONE I had lined with paper towels and user it to remove lube from boolits I purchased. In the process of doing that the wax/lube kinda got stuck onto the bottom and acted as a type of adhesive. When I set the nonstick foil down, I noticed that I must hae gotten about 15+ bakes from it before little pieces started to tear off here and there. Meanwhile, the other piece of foil was getting me about 2-4 bakes before it would tear a lot. I think that if you have an adhesive, maybe even a high temp adhesive holding down yoru foil, it will last a lot longer, but if it is allowed to move and wrinkle/crease then I think that can create weak spots and cause it to break or rip apart easier. JM2C...

[prs]

I do one setting of the boolits when I tumble coat. When I ES gunned them, I had to set the boolits on the tray in neat little ducky rows at least one time, because after shooting them on the non-stick foil they tend to scoot around when you move the tray to the oven. Using parchment or silicone I can tumble a big batch in the old vibratory tumbler and set them in close spaced rows that do not slide around and thus production goes way up and the coating is plenty heavy enough to size proper, prevent leading and look purdy too. Then again, what I am interested in mostly is high production and effective anti-leading. Purdy is tertiary.

prs

[Dragonheart]

PRS, I agree. Shooting is my hobby and bullet casting and coating is a means to that end. If I can't produce quality bullets in quantity at a reasonable speed then what's the point? My tumble coating process and "Ram Chucker" allows me to do that.

[gpidaho]

Dragonheart is correct my friends, the silicon baking sheets are the way to go. I just started using them on his suggestion and they work great. I spray some and tumble some, but always transfer to the silicon sheet as an extra step (I hate the flashed bases and I got time) I have other ways to do the small boolits like the 22s but anything that will stand on its own now gets baked on my Kitzini silicon sheets GP

[gunoil]

The idea of handling the boolits twice has never seemed desirable to me. I use a baking tray that has a raised surface with tapped holes in which I screw in 10-32 socket head cap crews. I place the boolits on the heads of the screws and spray. They are well grounded and as you can see the PC has evenly flowed around the perimeter of the base. I hit the tops of the screw heads with a coarse file (lightly) ever so often to make sure the lead has good contact with the screw top. This method has be serving me well for over 2 years now.

Way to go retread. Also like the hp's stuck on a screw in other post of someone especially if your gonna gas check.

[gpidaho]

Here's how I get a perfect PC on those little 22 boolits that have a gas check shank (electrostatic) Cut some 1/4" aluminum plate to fit your oven leaving one plate flat, drill a grid of holes in a second plate to accept spent 22rf casings, cover the plate with the holes (I use tin foil) and use a punch to open the holes. place the spent casings through the holes and clamp the rims between the plates, I use small screws and wing nuts on the plate corners. If the neck of the spent case is too small to accept the gas check shank enlarge with any handy punch, I use the expanding mandrel from my Sinclair neck turner. Spray coat and bake, you can use this set up many times before you need to change out the casings for a better ground, makes perfectly coated 22s and no knock over spill issues on the small boolits. Happy Coating GP

[Dragonheart]

Dragonheart is correct my friends, the silicon baking sheets are the way to go. I just started using them on his suggestion and they work great. I spray some and tumble some, but always transfer to the silicon sheet as an extra step (I hate the flashed bases and I got time) I have other ways to do the small boolits like the 22s but anything that will stand on its own now gets baked on my Kitzini silicon sheets GP

Thanks for the thumbs up. You might want to check my post "I don't use aluminum foil anymore" as I have now tried others recommendations. But the long & the short I will also stick with silicon for any bullet I can stand up.