Another 1050 vs 650 thread

[jmorris]

(the question is 1050 vs 650 with casefeeder, I do not want other suggestions such as the 550.). I want a fully indexed machine with casefeeder.
I know that there are cheaper alternatives, I already have one, and I don't want another one.

You kind of already answered your own question, the 650 is a cheaper alternative to the 1050.

[StratsMan]

Kryogen,

There's a lot of good reasoning and recommendations in this thread. I have not tried a 650, but I'm ready to sell my 1050 because it's too expensive to buy conversions and I just don't shoot enough anymore to justify its' capabilities. I'm running a 550 as well, but I'd like to downsize to a 650...

On the other side of the coin, the 1050 is a real magnet for other people who don't have much time and want to crank out a few hundred rounds. I supervise them, and with 1 of us monitoring components and the other pulling the handle and monitoring quality we can keep that press running pretty smoothly. So if you want to spend 3-4 hours in one session per month, and can get a fellow shooter involved, you can build all the ammo you both need for a month (or longer???) in one afternoon...

[Bonz]

I have not tried a 650, but I'm ready to sell my 1050 because it's too expensive to buy conversions...

How much less are the caliber conversions for the 650 vs 1050 ?

[kryogen]

Hi, thanks to all for the comments.
At this point, because I'm reloading only approx 10k 9mm a year, and 1000 or so 223, and I want to reload diff headstamp brass easily, and switch calibers without too much hassle, I think that I'll go with the 650 and be happy about it.
If one day I really want a 1050, then I guess that I'll just either sell the 650, or keep one for each caliber.

I have a loadmaster and my main complaint is : priming system doesnt work for me (tried everything, all the tricks, new assembly from lee, die, no die, adjust shell guard tighter, slacker..... still not reliable). Also, no casefeeder.

So, that means I have to resize all my 9mm brass , hand fed, one by 1, on the lee single stage, then prime with their prime thing that you swing, then prime on the upstroke.
Then, I have to hand feed those again, one by one, in the loadmaster to do the actual loading on sized and primed cases. This takes forever. I want a reliable machine to automate this.

Also, for my 223 prep, I want to feed clean brass into the brass feeder, then do lube die, size, then out in cleaning bin. (I dont reload enough to buy a dillon trimmer). Then I just take the clean brass, quickly run through the WFT trimmer, and dump into case feeder for the 2nd reloading toolhead. Neck size (to make sure nothing in flash hole, polish inside case cut, and make sure necks are uniform, then powder, bullet, crimp.... then done.

I used to reload some 45, 38, 357 but just got annoyed of reloading too many calibers. Down to 9mm, 223, and match 308 on single stage.

Should work.
Great thanks.

[kryogen]

How much less are the caliber conversions for the 650 vs 1050 ?

394 vs 185 so 210$ cheaper

[angus6]

I load 13 calibers on my 1050 , I use Hornady lock rings and just swap dies ,not a big deal. As to conversion cost I'm at around $65 a pop as I buy just parts needed and can usually find used.

When I picked up my 1050 it didn't take long to remove the 550 and 650 from the bench as the 1050 is so much nicer to use, think taking a rode trip in a pinto versus Caddy

[kryogen]

is the 1050 that much better to crank the handle?

[rbt50]

remember the 1050 is a commercial machine and only has a one year warranty.

[kryogen]

remember the 1050 is a commercial machine and only has a one year warranty.

Will it ever break reloading 12k rounds a year anyway?

[jmorris]

Only parts I have had to replace on my 1050's is the plastic tip on the primer tube and Dillon always sends them for free. Might be because the same tip is used on my SD's and 550 machines too.

I loaded for 20 years or more before I bought my first 1050 and was happy. That said after the first one I did get another and sold one of my 650's to cover the price.

[rockrat]

And to throw another kink in the discussion, there is a used 1050 for sale in the S&S!!!

[kryogen]

And to throw another kink in the discussion, there is a used 1050 for sale in the S&S!!!

For the price of a new one as usual.....

[W.R.Buchanan]

Also, for my 223 prep, I want to feed clean brass into the brass feeder, then do lube die, size, then out in cleaning bin. (I dont reload enough to buy a dillon trimmer). Then I just take the clean brass, quickly run through the WFT trimmer, and dump into case feeder for the 2nd reloading toolhead. Neck size (to make sure nothing in flash hole, polish inside case cut, and make sure necks are uniform, then powder, bullet, crimp.... then done.

Kryogen: If you need the 5th station for a lube die then you might consider a slightly different approach to your loading sequence. What you are doing is counter productive in that you are Tumbling your cases and then lubing them afterwards which means you have to wipe the lube off each one before you fire them.

I collect Range Brass from different outings until I have about 200 and then tumble them for an hour and bag, and store. Then when I need to reload I grab a bag of clean brass and start. This brass was cleaned during off times so it is not part of a loading cycle.

Case Prep and loading should be two different functions.

If you Lube, Size and Deprime, then trim your cases if you must, in the first operations and then tumble, you end up loading clean resized cases which are done as soon as they come off the machine. If you tumble for 24 hours in Walnut Hulls you don't even need to deburr the inside as the tumbling action does a nice job on that, however 1 hour will remove the lube. Look into Dillon Case Lube which will eliminate the Lube Die completely.

With .223s I don't even bother trimming them as they are all a one way trip and I will never see them again. Using a Lee Collet Crimp Die will eliminate the need to trim these cases. Also loading boat tail style bullets will make the bullet seating operation go much smoother. I assume you are using 55gr FMJBT's as they are the cheapest and most common bullets for these rounds out there and are completely suitable for any non hunting use in a Carbine.

By prepping your brass first and then loading it in two separate operations you will eliminate a bunch of monkey motion and turn out better ammo. This is what you want to do anyway, it is just a slightly different sequence of actions than what you are proposing.

Also this way the 5th station on your new 650 could be used with a powder check die so you don't make dangerous ammo.

If this is not to your liking then a 1050 is the way to go as you can do everything to a cartridge from start to finish in one pass and eliminate several handlings which ultimately saves time. Otherwise you will have to go thru numerous other operations to make sure every case is suitable to load.

3/4 of automated processing is about eliminating as many steps as possible and doing things in a logical and non redundant manner.

The other 1/4 is pulling the handle.

Randy

[angus6]

kryogen you'll differently be happy going from the LM to the 650, not near as happy if it was to the 1050 but happy.

some broke 1050 porn

[kryogen]

buchanan I don't get your whole post. It's just too long and complicated.

1- I'm not going to feed dirty brass in my press. So I usually just tumble it to remove dirt and grime. Quick cycle in the corncob.
2- I'm going to feed clean (not sparkling, but grime free) brass, and then have a lube die, deprime/size die, and then trim it, and then re-clean it completely with SS pins for a few hours to have it squeaky clean. (toolhead 1 = prep)
3- Then, I'm going to feed clean and sized brass in the press again to neck size, prime, powder, bullet, crimp, and done. (toolhead2=load)

What's the problem, in less than 2 lines?

[jmorris]

Why are you sizing, trimming then sizing again? I assume you also never run across crimped primer pockets?

[M-Tecs]

I have three 650's and two 1050's. I am going to be buried with the 1050's.

[kryogen]

Why are you sizing, trimming then sizing again? I assume you also never run across crimped primer pockets?

The neck sizing is just to make sure that the primer hole is clear, and that the neck has perfect shape before loading, and no burrs.
Doing so on the progressive isnt any harder, and doesnt require any lube anyway. Why not use the die, I already have it anyway.

If I have a crimped pocket, I just remove the brass, and use the super swage, put back in, prime.
Most of my brass is already de-crimped.

Is it worth 1000$ more just to have auto swage built in? Maybe not to me..... I don't really see more advantages to the 650, to me, other than that?
It just looks like a major annoyance to switch from 9mm to 223 on the 1050, adjust primer depth, swage rod, and then it's 200$ more to change calibers vs the 650...

[jmorris]

Primer depth is set on a 1050 with an Allen wrench, housed within the tool head it moves with the dies for a given caliber. Is it worth it? I have a few of them but I also don't own a boat or motorcycle anymore and prefer how they work. If I collected stamps or Rolex watches I would likely spend the money in that direction.

The easy way to "convert" one over to them is let them load with one. Where are you located?

[kryogen]

if you switch from 9 to 223, what steps are required to adjust swage rod?
primer depth stays adjusted in the toolhead, that's already quite good.

One option to save a few hundred $ would be to use hornady lockrings and just remove dies. when switching. That way I could have it setup for 9 most of the time, but do some 223 when I want to.
With the USD at 1.25 CAN$, the 2500$ kit is now more like 3125$

Having the full switch kit from 9mm to 223 is like 500$ CAN on the 1050... starting to be a little expensive to reload 1000 223s a year.
Because I would do approx only one batch a year, switching dies with lockrings to save the 300$ for the toolhead + powder measure doesnt sound soooo bad.
I guess I could have the lockrings, and just switch the dies, powder funnel and the powder bar? Maybe that wouldnt even be longer than switching TH... but then I would have to readjust primer depth, etc etc.....

which leads me to my economy 650 until I am done buying baby stuff and doing home renos.... wife is draining all my money :P