Another 1050 vs 650 thread

[jmorris]

just wanting the option of someone who has the mini bullet feeder.

I have had a number of different bullet feeders, none were much improvement without collators. Some like the Lee for example were worse than not having it.

The MBF is a good product, would be my #2 choice for the 650 or 1050.

So replacing the cop with a bullet feeder would be nice and might get me to 1000 rounds an hour.

What I meant by "improvement" above is that at some point, without a collator, you will have to pick up and place each bullet base down into something, be it a tube or case.

Add a collator and you eliminate the handling of each bullet.

[jmorris]

You still have to stop to fill the primer tube and collators but that takes much less time that filling tubes by hand.

with a vibraprime or better yet the RF100 you can load more than 1000/hr pretty easy.

[kryogen]

I got the strongmount with my 650, but it feels too high to me even on a regular bench... maybe I should have gotten the lower 6 inch mount vs the 8.5 for 550/650.

The collator bullet feeders are much better. It's just that they are 600$ CAD or so, and I don't reload enough to justify the expense. Same thing applies to the 1050.

You eventually have to stop somewhere.... or I would have a 1050 with a bullet feeder and collator. But that would have been close to 2000$ CAD more, and seriously, I have already spent 2500$CAD or so on the 650 with options. That's already overkill for me.

[jmorris]

You eventually have to stop somewhere.... or I would have a 1050 with a bullet feeder and collator. But that would have been close to 2000$ CAD more, and seriously, I have already spent 2500$CAD or so on the 650 with options. That's already overkill for me.

MA Systems were the only people that made collators when I first needed one but they were over $1000, so I have made all of mine vs buying them.

This is where I stopped.

[warf73]

You still have to stop to fill the primer tube and collators but that takes much less time that filling tubes by hand.

with a vibraprime or better yet the RF100 you can load more than 1000/hr pretty easy.

I load all my tubes with the vibraprime unit, I load 10 tubes and ready to go.

That bullet feeder in this post is that a modified GSI set up?

[kryogen]

Placing bullets 1 by 1 on top of the cases is clearly the slowest thing in the process now.

[jmorris]

That bullet feeder in this post is that a modified GSI set up?

The feeder/tool heads are GSI's I build my collators out of 6" PVC because I am cheap and they work.

[kryogen]

Ok I installed and tested the MINI mr bulletfeeder with 124RN plated bullets today.
It works as advertised.
You need to setup the new 2 step powder funnel. It's shorter than the dillon funnel (why?) so you need to screw the die in quite a bit. Not that it will matter much, because it works much better than the dillon funnel and you will never need to switch back. Even if you place bullets by hand, they just fit much better with that funnel. I would not go back.(like an M die, there is a 2mm or so step at 358, so the bullet just drops into the first 2mm of the case and centers easily, and doesnt move or tip when indexing.)

Adjusting the die is easy. They say that when a bullet drops you need to give it another quarter turn, but it took more like half a turn to make it feed reliably for me. Not an issue, just try, if it fails to drop sometimes, give it another 1/8, try again.... until it drops all the time. Just did 100 rounds, 100% success. Works really well. It's an aluminum die so do not over tighten the lock nut.

My point of view is that it's a really nice addition to the press if you want something better than placing bullets by hand, and do not want to buy the big thing with the collator because you don't reload enough to justify the cost.

You have to fill the tubes, but it's much faster to fill tubes right on the bench next to you, and then crank the handle like crazy, vs picking one bullet at a time and centering it over a case slowly.

It just makes loading 100 rounds boring fast. It probably took me 5 minutes or so to process the 100 rounds. Well, to me, that is a plus, because with the baby I cannot have a ton of reloading time, so I know that I can just go in the garage, fill tubes(maybe 2 min), use the vibra prime to load 100 primers(2 min), and 10 minutes later I'm out of the garage with 100 rounds.

One thing I can say about the 650, is that it's not the best thing if you want to "play around" with different loads, bullets, load a few of X, a few of Y, a few of Z.
It wants to feed cases, your tube of cases is full, primers are full, and if you crank the handle, cases and primers are going in, and it will index. It's not so easy to "stop" and clear the shellplate, so if you plan to reload just 100 or so at a time, leave everything there with the handle down and rounds still on the shellplate. Or, the best thing with the 650 would probably be to reload a few months worth and then clear everything.

I will probably keep doing my test runs on the loadmaster, with brass that I will have sized and primed and on the 650. If you hand feed sized and primed brass on the loadmaster, it's really easy to do small test runs and adjust as you go. Then once a load works and you want to produce a lot, adjust the 650 and crank rounds.

[jmorris]

It wants to feed cases, your tube of cases is full, primers are full, and if you crank the handle, cases and primers are going in,

If you want to stop the flow of the case feed and primer feed you need a coat hanger and something to bend and cut it.

For the case feed you need to form it like this. (Parts removed so I could take photos)



And install it like this.


For the primer feed you need to form it like this.



And install it like this.


For primers you can also just use a ziptie in a loop over the failsafe rod bracket to hold the primer index arm back but everyone has a wire hanger in there house, unless their mom is "Mommy dearest".

[kryogen]

Jesus man.

[jmorris]

An even simpler case feed stop.

[kryogen]

the 9mm case trick works wonderfully thanks
I guess it would be a bad idea to keep this spring compressed for a long time?

[jmorris]

the 9mm case trick works wonderfully thanks
I guess it would be a bad idea to keep this spring compressed for a long time?

From an ammunition loading stand point it would be for sure as you have to work around everything to insert a case into the shell plate.

Springs are not all the same but the ones in my engines and suspensions all have springs that have been compressed since the day they were installed. Recoil and magazine springs too, cycling is generally what wears out springs.

[VHoward]

the 9mm case trick works wonderfully thanks
I guess it would be a bad idea to keep this spring compressed for a long time?

No, but if it does break, Dillon will replace it for you.

[kryogen]

Update:

The case works to stop the casefeeder. I do that.
To stop the primers, I just remove the plastic indexing ramp, takes 2 seconds.

The swage-it 650 doesnt swage much honestly. You still have to push the primers in hard and they "pop" in. Gets tiring when doing many hundred in a row.

Unless you have a 1050, it's probably better to just buy pre-processed 223 cases and not bother with swaging. For the cost difference, it's not really worth the trouble to swage yourself. With 3000 cases or so, I'm good for a lifetime of reloading 223 anyway. It's just not worth the trouble to swage 3000 cases without a 1050 for the cost difference of processed 1f brass from a commercial brass reseller. It would have cost less to get swaged brass vs buying the swage it + the super swage anyway.

Overall impressions:

I HATE pushing the handle in to prime and push the case. The 1050 would be easier to work with. But then it's 1000$ cad more, plus the added cost of toolheads. Probably 1500$ more.
If I had to do it again, I would just get the 1050 and save the swage/push trouble. But now I have a 650 and I'll keep it.

If you can afford it, the 1050 is the better option.

[jmorris]

With 3000 cases or so, I'm good for a lifetime of reloading 223 anyway. It's just not worth the trouble to swage 3000 cases without a 1050 for the cost difference of processed 1f brass from a commercial brass reseller.

The only problem with that is if you shoot with someone or somewhere you may pick up others brass.

I leave most 3 gun matches with more brass than I cam there with, so all of my brass gets treated the same.

If you just buy brass to use yourself and it all stays together with no "strangers" mixing with them, that would work. Might also be worth getting an X die at that point too.

[kryogen]

yup, should have bought the 1050, but I'm not taking a loss on the 650 to switch it for a 1050, and I don't reload enough to justify buying a 1050 now anyway. Maybe later in life if I shoot more.

The 650 isnt a bad machine, I reloaded 800 rounds of 9mm and 800 rounds of 223 on it yesterday in a few hours. Just sucks to push the handle in.

What I really enjoy with the dillon press is that you never adjust it. It just cranked 800 rounds of each without needing any adjustment while reloading. Everything went fine.


With the lee, everything would need to be readjusted or re-tightened every 100 rounds or so. shell holder prongs, turret, powder measure, shellplate, etc etc... plus the lack of case feeder.

I use the mr bullet feeder die, and I just put bullets in the die as I load. That way I don't have to position bullets on the cases, it's much faster, and I don't fill the tubes.
It's not really slower than with a collator. By the time I cycle the press, the bullet is in and I just never stop.... bullet feeder makes sense for an automated press though, imo. like a 1050 with autodrive.

[jeep45238]

yup, should have bought the 1050, but I'm not taking a loss on the 650 to switch it for a 1050, and I don't reload enough to justify buying a 1050 now anyway. Maybe later in life if I shoot more.

The 650 isnt a bad machine, I reloaded 800 rounds of 9mm and 800 rounds of 223 on it yesterday in a few hours. Just sucks to push the handle in.

What I really enjoy with the dillon press is that you never adjust it. It just cranked 800 rounds of each without needing any adjustment while reloading. Everything went fine.


With the lee, everything would need to be readjusted or re-tightened every 100 rounds or so. shell holder prongs, turret, powder measure, shellplate, etc etc... plus the lack of case feeder.

I use the mr bullet feeder die, and I just put bullets in the die as I load. That way I don't have to position bullets on the cases, it's much faster, and I don't fill the tubes.
It's not really slower than with a collator. By the time I cycle the press, the bullet is in and I just never stop.... bullet feeder makes sense for an automated press though, imo. like a 1050 with autodrive.

Then you're not pulling the handle fast enough!

I kid, I kid (mostly) - although I did rig up my Mr Bullet feeder collator to a Lee Bulletfeeder today for sizing on a single stage, and I damn near outran the collator at full tilt. Can't do that on my 650, but there's no way orienting the bullet and dropping it in a die by hand is anywhere near as quick as a collator system.

[jmorris]

It's not really slower than with a collator.

I did it both ways, even ran case feed without collators. Not a chance you can get close to the same speed without a lot more work.

Its not unlike being able to cycle faster by hand than an automated machine.



However, you have to stop at some point to fill things up. If you had just been keeping the "auto" fed, you would have more ammo loaded in the same time, same goes for collators.

Doesn't take a PHD in mathematics to understand that the time at "0" production is what kills the average. Like Aesop's tortoise and the hare, you can do a lot of work really fast but the zero production will still make you loose the race.

[kryogen]

I load at least as fast as you do loading bullets in the die by hand. I put a bullet in the die when the handle is down, by the time the handle is up I have a bullet in my hand, and by the time the handle is down, it's in the die. I don't stop. Bullet feeding is faster than press cycling....
I'm not saying that it doesnt have a use, but maybe not for 1-2k rounds a year.