.45-70Govt load class question

[Mgderf]

I want to load for a brand new H&R Handi-Rifle in .45-70Govt.
I find 3 load classes listed. Springfield Trapdoor, Marlin Lever, and Ruger No.1 & 3.

Which class do I consider the Handi-Rifle?
Will it stand up to the Ruger loads, or do I want to stay with the Marlin lever loads?

Any help would be appreciated.

[Bohica793]

I load mine to Trapdoor levels and find those more than sufficient for my needs. My understanding it that it is fine with Lever loads, but I am not certain of Ruger level loads.

[Mk42gunner]

Welcome aboard.

The newer H&R's on the rifle frame are supposed to be pretty strong, but they are also pretty light. I do not know just how strong they are, but I believe recoil will be the limiting factor; just as it is with a Ruger No. 1 or 3.

At one time I had a Ruger No. 1-S in .45-70 and had to try some of what I call "Elmer Keith Memorial Loads" which were a Speer 405 gr JSP over a lot (don't have my notes handy) of 3031. They shot well, but I decided there really wasn't anything I was that mad at that I would use that rifle on, plus the lower level loads shot just as well for plinking in the desert.

Do some shooting first before you jump onto the 'I need the most powerful load' wagon, you might be satisfied with level one or two loads.

Good luck,

Robert

[1Shirt]

You will most likely find trapdoor loads, more than adequate, and I recommend starting loads and working up.
1Shirt!

[Mumblypeg]

What MK42gunner said.... and I think you shoulder will tell you when enough is enough. I had a Ruger #3 in 45-70..... the light loads were just fine.... I shot two hopped up loads.... that was enough!

[Mgderf]

Welcome aboard.

The newer H&R's on the rifle frame are supposed to be pretty strong, but they are also pretty light. I do not know just how strong they are, but I believe recoil will be the limiting factor; just as it is with a Ruger No. 1 or 3.

At one time I had a Ruger No. 1-S in .45-70 and had to try some of what I call "Elmer Keith Memorial Loads" which were a Speer 405 gr JSP over a lot (don't have my notes handy) of 3031. They shot well, but I decided there really wasn't anything I was that mad at that I would use that rifle on, plus the lower level loads shot just as well for plinking in the desert.

Do some shooting first before you jump onto the 'I need the most powerful load' wagon, you might be satisfied with level one or two loads.

Good luck,

Robert

Robert,
Thanks for the input.
I'm not really THAT mad at anything in particular. LOL.
I fully understand that lesser loads will do just fine for most of my shooting applications.
The Handi-Rifle probably won't see anything more than plinking for fun and hunting whitetail deer.

I have a friend that is into casting his own boolits so I decided to become an enabler to him.
I picked up a couple of sets of Lee molds in .45-70, one in 405gr RNFP and another set in 500gr Spitzer point.

I've never been one to shy away from recoil. Then again, I'm not a glutton for punishment either.
I have another Handi-Rifle in .500S&W magnum so I think I have some idea of what to expect.

I have only recently delved into the realm of reloading, and so far, I've enjoyed reading everything I can find on the subject.
To date, I have successfully loaded .32S&W Long, .38spl, .45acp, .45Colt, and a couple of Marlin load .45-70's.

I'm trying REAL hard to take my time, learning what I can along the way.
There is a LOT more involved in reloading than I first assumed.

I've purchased and read, the ABC's of reloading, Lyman's 49th edition, Modern Reloading by Richard Lee...
I've also picked up a couple of older Speer manuals (#'s 11 & 12), and a couple of the Hodgdon publications.

So much to learn...

[Duckiller]

Load to Trapdoor level, your shoulder will appreciate it.

[tdoyka]

i would load to trapdoor levels, maybe a skosh higher(light lever gun levels). after all...

your shoulder will appreciate it.

[oldred]

As said load to trapdoor level if you value your shoulder, however Marlin 1895 loads are just fine.

Now, DON'T DO THIS!!!!! BUT I know one fellow who loads to Ruger no.1 pressures and beyond! I would not shoot that thing on a dare with his ammo but he does and has been doing so for a long time, he thinks it's funny and just loves to have an unsuspecting shooter get stomped by the recoil. Personally I think what he's doing is nothing short of stupid and this kind of behavior is the sort of thing we often read about and end up trying to figure out exactly what happened. The reason I am telling you about this is that what he's doing is a testament to the strength of those rifles, he has shot a great many rounds that I think anyone here would agree are gross overloads for that rifle but so far it does not seem to be harmed in the least! I saw this rifle last fall during deer season when he hunted with it on my farm, I joked about him still being in one piece to hunt but he just jokingly called me sissy and laughed about it, I will not be surprised if this eventually catches up with him but that rifle enduring that kind of punishment without even shooting loose has sure made a believer out of me!

Again, I am NOT in any way suggesting that kind of abuse is ok and in fact I firmly believe it to be very dangerous still it proves that the design is a strong one and that particular rifle has been strong indeed!

[Mgderf]

...I am NOT in any way suggesting that kind of abuse is ok and in fact I firmly believe it to be very dangerous still it proves that the design is a strong one and that particular rifle has been strong indeed!

Oh, believe me, I'm NOT one to try experimenting. I'll gladly leave that to others that know more than I, or think they do anyway.
I have no desire to push the envelope, which is precisely why I posted the questions.
I really do appreciate everyone's input.

I do enjoy a good recoil, but I absolutely abhor injuries!

[oldred]

Marlin loads should be perfectly ok and if the rifle is setup right recoil should be manageable, depends on how much fun you want to have!

I thought that it might be comforting to know that there is apparently a very hefty safety margin with these rifles, if the design can stand the type of abuse that particular rifle has undergone then you should have no worries at all with what you are proposing. Have fun and enjoy that thing!

[EDG]

I am sure you will be more than satisfied with 1100 to 1300 fps that you get with Trapdoor loads.
The 300 grain bullets at that speed have enough recoil to make you think you are shooting a real gun.
The 500 grain bullets are more accurate but will beat you up with a light rifle.

[Mgderf]

Thanks for the input folks.
It looks like my Handi-Rifle is 7lbs. Not a brick by any means, but it does have a really nice recoil pad.
So far all the factory offerings are no more than a good push to the shoulder, but no SLAM.

[thegatman]

I use Trailboss and the 70% rule with 400 grain bullets and it shoots just fine. Why kill your shoulder and brass. The H & R's are pretty strong with a SB2 frame.

[Wayne Smith]

Save your pennies for a 457122 Gould HP and go deer hunting. That's what it was originally designed for.

[nicholst55]

The NEF Handi-Rifle is suitable, strength-wise, for Ruger-Only loads. I have that from the factory, back before Remington absorbed them. They at least used to chamber that same action for .500 S&W; that should speak volumes for it's strength. One of the makers of premium ammo (Buffalo Bore?) endorses the Handi for their .45-70 '+P' ammo, as well.

Your shoulder will be screaming for you to stop long before the rifle shows the strain!

[Mgderf]

The NEF Handi-Rifle is suitable, strength-wise, for Ruger-Only loads. I have that from the factory, back before Remington absorbed them. They at least used to chamber that same action for .500 S&W; that should speak volumes for it's strength. One of the makers of premium ammo (Buffalo Bore?) endorses the Handi for their .45-70 '+P' ammo, as well.

Your shoulder will be screaming for you to stop long before the rifle shows the strain!

I reckon I should have guessed as much.
I have another Handi-Rifle in .500S&W magnum.

[rfd]

loading for the .45-70 will depend on its purposeful use. for targets, particularly long range at 200 to 1000 yards and longer, there is no question that heavy lead alloy boolits (400 to 550 grains) travelling slow (trap door speeds of 1000 to 1400fps) are the way to go. those kinda cartridges will pretty much kill any critter on our continent, too, as our 19th century american bison found out. if the boolits are gas checked or jacketed, much higher lever gun velocities can be achieved, but imho i see no specific need to go beyond trap door speeds. though those h&r handi .45-70 receivers can take 'em with no problems, i won't even comment on those insane howitzer ruger loads, yikes!?

[tsubaki]

The Handi Rifle will handle it.
I started off with some 300gr JHP's at about 2100fps, the recoil was insane. The rainbow trajectory aggravated me so I also tried some 300gr Barnes SP thinking the pointed bullet would help but it was to no avail. Even shot the guts out of a Tasco World Class trying to site it in.
Ended up backing off to about 1900fps, put a Burris Ballistic Plex scope and rings on it.
I'm now fine with the rainbow trajectory and am considering moving to a 405 cast when I run out of my jacketed stuff.

[oldred]

The Handi Rifle will handle it.
I started off with some 300gr JHP's at about 2100fps, the recoil was insane. The rainbow trajectory aggravated me so I also tried some 300gr Barnes SP thinking the pointed bullet would help but it was to no avail. Even shot the guts out of a Tasco World Class trying to site it in.
Ended up backing off to about 1900fps, put a Burris Ballistic Plex scope and rings on it.
I'm now fine with the rainbow trajectory and am considering moving to a 405 cast when I run out of my jacketed stuff.

This is what occurred to me years ago with my 45/70 Marlin, it's no 220 Swift and it will never be no matter how heavy I loaded it! The thing is that rainbow trajectory is always going to be there and while it can be flattened some at the expense of brutal recoil it will never flatten out enough to be worth the abuse to both the firearm and the shoulder, for hunting game on the receiving end simply won't know the difference. The bottom line is that rainbow trajectory is just the nature of the beast and will have to be dealt with regardless so just tame the beast and shooting it will be far more enjoyable!