Question about tungsten shot

[Black Prince]

Today I was watching a turkey hunting show on You Tube and part of it was pattern testing. One of the guys had done his own custom loads using what he called "tungsten super shot." I load on a MEC and have loaded for years, but I have never heard of any "tungsten super shot." I do recognize its superior ability to retain energy over lead since it is the higher density metal and I want to load some of it for my 12 gage turkey loads, but I have absolutely NO IDEA where to get such a thing. If any of you boys know of a supplier who sells it, I'd sure appreciate knowing about it. Midway sells the tungsten wads made for tungsten shot, but they don't list any tungsten shot. All I've ever used is standard old Lawrence chilled lead shot so alla this tungsten business is new to me.

The commercial loaded shot using tungsten is called "Heavi-shot" and one brand name of those shells is Heavi-13 and you can find them in most sporting goods stores in the ammo section and at Cabela's and Midway. But I want to load my own dang it.

[Vinne]

You got me!!! I've been trap shooting and hunting for 40 years and have never heard of it.

[turtlezx]

tungsten is not heavier than lead -- and stronger than steel

[Black Prince]

The question is: WHERE CAN I GET IT?

Tungsten has the atomic symbol of W because the element was discovered as part of a mineral called Wolframite , which has a lot of tungsten in it. Lead is Pb, which comes from the Latin plumbum, meaning “liquid silver”. ‘

Tungsten is atomic number 74 and lead is atomic number 82. With a few exceptions, the larger the atomic number, the heavier the atom. The atomic weights (how much equal numbers of atoms of each substance weigh) are right there on the periodic table. A lead atom is about 1-1/8 times heavier than a tungsten atom.

But why is a tungsten block heavier than the same sized lead block if lead atoms are heavier than tungsten atoms? It all has to do with how tightly the atoms are packed when they form a solid. The numbers on the periodic table just refer to the atoms, but the atoms pack themselves into regularly ordered patterns when they form solids. The more closely the atoms pack in, the higher the density of the solid.

The density of lead is 0.410 lb/in3, which means a cube of lead one inch on all sides weighs 0.41 pounds. Tungsten has a density of 0.70 lbs/in3, which means that a cube of tungsten one inch on all sides would weigh 0.70 lbs – 1.74 times more than the same sized cube of lead and blah, blah, blah.

All I wanna know is where I can get tungsten shot which IS HEAVIER than the same sized lead shot thus maintaining more energy down range for the same sized shot. Or I can reduce the shot size and increase the shot count in any load and thus increase pattern density and still maintain the SAME energy as if I used lead shot of a larger size and thus a lesser pattern density and blah, blah, blah. You get the drift.

[GhostHawk]

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Hevi-Shot/products/67/

"Copied from that page"

Hevi-Shot is a non-toxic alternative to steel with density similar to that of lead shot. This pellet produces impressive long-range patterns and down-range lethality.
Hevi-Shot is comprised of tungsten alloy (tungsten is an element which is harder than steel/iron), nickel, and iron. Hevi-Shot pellets are very hard and they must be contained within a special non-toxic shotcup.
When selecting Hevi-Shot pellet size, the general rule is to use the same or one size smaller than you would have with lead shot or two to three sizes smaller than steel shot. With that said, this type of generalization cannot replace actual field testing on your part.

Simple enough, 2 minutes and google is your friend.
Trick is to know how to talk to it.

[too many things]

also will add you don't shoot in the old fixed chokes. BPI that ghosthawk listed is your best place to go for wads and load data

[Black Prince]

Many thanks Hawk, but I KNOW what tungsten shot is and how it has to be loaded in a special shot wad, and where to get those shot wads, (Midway) but did that Google search trick you did tell you where I can get any of that tungsten shot? All Hands now hear this, I say again, the question is, WHERE CAN I GET TUNGSTEN SHOT?

Look fellas, this is too much sugar for a nickel, so I'll just buy some commercially loaded turkey heavi- 13 shot loads. I've already got a shotgun on the way up to Rob Roberts in Bentonville, Arkansas for the forcing cone to be lengthened and a special choke tube to be installed for the heavi-shot, so that base is covered. I probably won't shoot enough of that stuff to merit getting all set up to load it anyway. I only shoot a maximum of three shells a year anyway because that is the limit on turkeys here. It is no biggie, but I sure appreciate all you boys trying to help an old codger who just wants to try them new fangled tungsten shot shells on a few terkel birds. Yawl play nice now.

[Hogtamer]

Since my ADD is acting up I'll bite....what kind of turkeys do you hunt that won't be killed by 200 - 220 lead #4 pellets aimed at the head out of a full choke 12 ga @ 50 yds or so? Or 300 4s and 6s mixed? If that's a real problem I might work on my calling technique a little.

[Black Prince]

Yeah. I guess my calling can always be improved and I've been working on doing that for over 50 years now. As a hobby, I started making and selling turkey calls about 40 years ago. I sell them at turkey jamborees and at gun shows just for something to do. But when you are 73 years old, you have had time to do many things in life. Turkey hunting is one of the better things I have done and I am about to get good at it.

I shot a test pattern with my old stand-by Remington 1100 just last week and here it is. It's a 1 1/2 ounce load of number 4's from a Winchester Mark V shell fired at 40 yards. There are 19 shot in that piece of black duct tape that measures 1 1/2 X 2 inches and over 75 shot in the turkey outline. You can call that a dead terkel. But that gun has had the forcing cone lengthened and it wears a 650 Rob Roberts special T-3 turkey choke in the muzzle end of it, so it shoots pert good. Butcha gotta hold on him tight at ten yards because if you don't, as tight as it shoots, you'll miss him with tha first shot . Ask me how I know. HAR!!!

But if you wanna try to match the numbers of turkeys you have killed against those I have killed, you had better been killing two or three turkeys every year over the last half century or more or you are gonna come up a couple short in spite of me needing to work on my calling technique.

[Hogtamer]

I mostly hunt 'em with my old recurve bow...the shotgun's kinda grocery shopping.

[cpileri]

TSS is indeed heavier than lead at 17-19g/cc vs 11-ish for lead. here is a whole lotta info. stuff is awesome (technically not casting for shotguns, so I never really mentioned it here, but I am a fan!)

http://www.gobblernation.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=18

[Fishman]

Hevi-shot is the brand name of the commercially available tungsten based shot. Ghost hawks link is good and there is hevi shot pellets available there for reloading. There really isn't any other better option.

[Black Prince]

Thanks boys, but like I said, it'll be more trouble than it's worth to get all geared up to load those things, so I'll just buy some commercially loaded shells because I don't shoot that kinda shell much. I really don't know if they are any better than what I already have, but since it's new and I don't know about them, I just thought they would be worth giving a try. I've never had any difficulty killing turkeys with what I have been using, but ya never know when something better might come along and even an old dog can learn new tricks every now and then.

I do shoot skeet every Tuesday with a group of old codgers and a few young turks who are also county deputy sheriffs. Sometimes we also shoot five stand sporting clays on Thursdays if we can get a half dozen or so of the guys together. That's what I mostly load shotgun shells for anyway.

I especially wanna thank those of you who answered my question in good faith and gave me good information and advice. You are what makes this forum worth visiting and I very much value your help and friendship. The older I get, the more I have learned to value such friends. And for those of you who don't know and have nothing to say but just try to be cute, you're not, and those of us here know who you are, and so do you.

[Black Prince]

Here is my not so good photo of a box of Heavi-Shot I bought from a local retailer this morning. For those of you who think tungsten is not heavier than lead, somebody ought to tell Heavi-Shot because as you can see, they say it is heavier right there on the front of the package and when you put a shell loaded with lead and one loaded with Heavi-Shot on a scale, guess what? The tungsten load is heavier EVERY TIME.

I'm headed to the shooting range patternig board right now to see how it shoots. And BTW, if you have a Rob Roberts choke tube in your gun, it is safe to shoot lead OR tungsten, OR steel shot in it. As Rob says, you don't need a dozen different choke tubes in your gun if you have the right one in there in the first place.

And once again, thanks to those of you who gave me accurate, useful information. Those of you who don't know and are talking through your hats, give us all a break and go BS somebody else.

[white eagle]

I load my own for ol moosedick (my 10 ga)
bought my hevi shot from ballistic products
it does require special loading though so get the loading book for it as well
the last turkey I got with it was @ 59 steps from my set up
called across open field but hung up and was fixin to book
one shot 22.5# bird

[Black Prince]

Thanks Eagle man. I'll sho order tha book if I ever get froggy enough to load summa them shells, but right now, I think I'm good just using the sto bought ones already loaded. I ain't all that mad at the terkels anyway, but I do enjoy messing around with them.

Sum people say terkels are getting harder to kill, but I used to kill'em alla time with 7/8 ounce of number 8's outta a little 20 gage Stevens model 311 double barrel bored full and modified. Today I use a standard 2 3/4 inch 12 gage, and it kills them terkels pert dern good. I sho ain't had any problems killing anything with'em.

[cpileri]

Federal "heavyweight" is heavier than lead at 15g/cc. Tungstenspheres.com sells 17-19g/cc shot sized spheres for abt 80$ per lb. Hope that helps. I love the stuff, but its expensive.

[Greg5278]

The Federal Heavyweight is good stuff. I used some of the Coyote Loads on geese out to 55 yards.
One shot each, with full Penetration and no recovered Pellets belly to back.I did buy some from China, it's cheaper than Tungsten Spheres, but You need to buy a few Kilos to make it worth it. It is available in densities from 11 15-16, and 18g/cm3 It does Penetrate much better than Lead, even HT Lead. It will go through galvanized Garbage can at 50 yards, lead will only dent it at that Range.

You must keep it off your Bore, it will scratch the Barrel. I had some Heavy Shot Factory Loads that ripped a big gouge in my Benelli M1 Barel last Season. It looked like a plate of Powder in the Bore after cleaning. I put on a new patch, and it it a gounge, with a raised Burr at the end. It cut through the chrome plating in the bore.
Greg 5278
AKA 12 Bore

[r6487]

black prince

bpi sells hevi-shot around $75.00 per 2 LB bag. my kid bought 5 shells (hevi-shot) that is a 2 oz load of mixed 4,5 6 specifically for turkey at $33.00 per 5 pack. he wanted to dissect one, count & weight the mixed shot to reverse engineer. well we would have to buy about $225.00 worth of shot ( 3bags) . 6lbs x 16 oz = 96 oz/ 2oz per round = 48 rounds. the stuff difinitely works but they treat & price it like gold.

[wildflilghts]

TSS is indeed heavier than lead at 17-19g/cc vs 11-ish for lead. here is a whole lotta info. stuff is awesome (technically not casting for shotguns, so I never really mentioned it here, but I am a fan!)

http://www.gobblernation.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=18

Cpileri hit on the source...Contact Hawglips at gobblernation. He sells TSS 18 shot. It is much denser than Hevishot. You can also find him over on Duckhuntingchat.com