310 tool questions

[Char-Gar]

Either one of the expander plugs pictured above will work with a 310 tool. Lyman seems to have difficulty figuring out just what these kinds of gizmos should look like (see pic below). On top they will be marked either .357 or .358. I have both.

I have put together a rather complete set of 310 dies for the 38 Special/357 Mag, will several expanders and seating dies with plugs. I use an pre-war Lyman/Ideal No. 3 set of handles. I load lots of ammo with it.

I also have a Lyman Tru-Line Jr. press set up just for 38 Special. It has a FL size die which BTW sizes 357 Mag cases as well. Lyman can be tricky about such things, stamping the same die 38 Spl. or 357Mag to sell more dies.

Lots of fun to be hand with old school reloading tools and the ammo produced is as good as what can be produced on a $2,000.00 super duper double thrown down progressive press.

[wonderwolf]

I'll admit it is very fun to load with the 310 tong tool, but I had some run out issues with bullets. I need to check my case OAL's next time as I was getting some huge variations. Bullets might have been at fault as well since the soft HP noses were swagging down a bit when lubersized.

[Char-Gar]

I'll admit it is very fun to load with the 310 tong tool, but I had some run out issues with bullets. I need to check my case OAL's next time as I was getting some huge variations. Bullets might have been at fault as well since the soft HP noses were swagging down a bit when lubersized.

Size your soft bullets in a Lee push through die, they make one in .358 and then lube in the machine with a .358 or .359 dies. There will be no distortion of the bullets that way. Cases need to be trimmed to a uniform length for a uniform crimp which produces accuracy.

I am been loading since 1958 without trying to bother with "run out" and never will. That is bench rest rifle stuff, not handgun. Use the right tools and there won't be a problem.

[wonderwolf]

Size your soft bullets in a Lee push through die, they make one in .358 and then lube in the machine with a .358 or .359 dies. There will be no distortion of the bullets that way. Cases need to be trimmed to a uniform length for a uniform crimp which produces accuracy.

I am been loading since 1958 without trying to bother with "run out" and never will. That is bench rest rifle stuff, not handgun. Use the right tools and there won't be a problem.

It was more of a issue of pressure at the bottom of the stroke after the ram stopped. I didn't have the plunger adjusted right for the taller bullet as the last thing I had sized in the 4500 was the short 358101 75gr wadcutter for the 38/357. You mean I shouldn't be weighing my brass and uniforming primer pockets/holes? hehe

I do like that idea of presizing the bullets though, This one was one of mihecs molds that drop bullets only .0005" over what I'm sizing them at so there is little to no resistance. I'll keep that trick in mind for future reference. I did buy a .358-9 lee sizer for possible tumble lube bullet acquisitions in the future and to also to size down .375 round balls to .358 to give me some bearing surface for "gallery loads" although the lighter aforementioned 75gr wadcutter has proven useful for that role as well.

[Char-Gar]

It was more of a issue of pressure at the bottom of the stroke after the ram stopped. I didn't have the plunger adjusted right for the taller bullet as the last thing I had sized in the 4500 was the short 358101 75gr wadcutter for the 38/357. You mean I shouldn't be weighing my brass and uniforming primer pockets/holes? hehe

I do like that idea of presizing the bullets though, This one was one of mihecs molds that drop bullets only .0005" over what I'm sizing them at so there is little to no resistance. I'll keep that trick in mind for future reference. I did buy a .358-9 lee sizer for possible tumble lube bullet acquisitions in the future and to also to size down .375 round balls to .358 to give me some bearing surface for "gallery loads" although the lighter aforementioned 75gr wadcutter has proven useful for that role as well.

I size nothing with pressure on the nose. I only size nose first with pressure on the base. The billets are then lubed in a machine with the same size or .001 larger.

[wonderwolf]

Is there any markings on the Universal decapping die? I think the one I have is the "long" version. seems to work ok for .38/357

[Green Frog]

Is there any markings on the Universal decapping die? I think the one I have is the "long" version. seems to work ok for .38/357

AFAIK, there is no reason that a long Universal Decapping Die shouldn't be usable for virtually all rifle and handgun cases. If it's long enough, there is no reason for concern that it might be TOO long.

Froggie

[44magLeo]

Case length variation isn't that big a problem. Seat the bullets a bit long. Seat bullets in, say 50 cases, look at the cases, you can see just how they are. Some may be ok Some need a bit deeper. Sort them out, adjust to seat the bullet deeper. Reseat the long ones, repeat till all look good.
Start with a short one. Adjust the crimp so it's good. Crimp a few ones to get a feel for the effort to crimp them. As you go along just be consistent on the force and the crimp will be consistent on all the case regardless of length.
Some of the most accurate loads I have ever used came out of my 310 tool for 44 special/mag.
Leo

[Pavogrande]

Here is a photo of the offending expander button -- These are EZ-loader/ Tru-line dies -
The deCap/ expander rod is threaded a bit longer at the bottom as the button is threaded --

[Green Frog]

Here is a photo of the offending expander button -- These are EZ-loader/ Tru-line dies -
The deCap/ expander rod is threaded a bit longer at the bottom as the button is threaded --

Yep, that set is probably going to give you headaches with a tong tool. If you just replace the die and stem in the middle with a solid expander plug die, you'll probably be good to go. For decapping and sizing, you could just take the expander ball off your stem and let that die decap and neck size... some of the 310 sets had a die like that. That should give you a die to decap and neck size, one to expand, and one to seat the bullet and crimp (or remove the mouth bell anyway.) Have you found the #26 priming chamber you need yet or are you priming some other way?

Froggie

[Char-Gar]

Yep, one of those Tru-Line Jr. neck size dies with the internal expander will cause you to bust a gut trying to use it with a 310 tong tool. I have tried it to find out just how hard. One case was enough for me.

However you can remove the decapping/expanding rod and the die sizes case necks just fine in a 310 tool.

[Pavogrande]

Oh, I don't try to use them as 310 dies -- learned that lesson many years ago -
I have even found tru-line CMR dies with the standard 7/8 die expander button installed.
It seem the thread is the same -- 6-48 if i recall correctly --
Apparently the decap rod with the 10/32 thread is the only standard thread used by lyman.

the variation in 310/tru-line/ ez-loader dies makes for some interesting head scratching sessions --

[wonderwolf]

I just got a huge lot of 310 dies from another member on this forum, going through them I have found a lot of variations in dies. I'm sure if I don't get called into work someday this week I'll be trying to figure out what everything is. Already ran into some mysteries

[Wayne Smith]

I just got a huge lot of 310 dies from another member on this forum, going through them I have found a lot of variations in dies. I'm sure if I don't get called into work someday this week I'll be trying to figure out what everything is. Already ran into some mysteries

Ahh, what a problem to have! Only when I am retired and have the time do I wish it on me, though. Not now.

[wonderwolf]

So why does the button pictured in #49 give so many problems? is it the shape or the placement of the button when it comes to the opening of the tongs (if you were uninformed and using tongs I guess). I'm including a picture of a decap/expander rod out of a 30-30 CMR die...is this standard for the tong tools? Does a seperate expander button dictate that its a die set/rod for a ezy loader or Tru line. I guess I'm asking how to tell them apart.

[Green Frog]

So why does the button pictured in #49 give so many problems? is it the shape or the placement of the button when it comes to the opening of the tongs (if you were uninformed and using tongs I guess). I'm including a picture of a decap/expander rod out of a 30-30 CMR die...is this standard for the tong tools? Does a seperate expander button dictate that its a die set/rod for a ezy loader or Tru line. I guess I'm asking how to tell them apart.

That's definitely a TruLine Jr die. You expand the neck going in, then close it down when you reach the bottom of your stroke, then have to open it back up AGAIN to get the expander ball back through. Take the ball off and just decap and neck size with that die then use a separate expander die and ball and you will be good to go. You will need to acquire one of the little knurled knobs to hold the decapping pin on the stem.

Froggie

[woody1]

So why does the button pictured in #49 give so many problems? See posts 6 and 51. is it the shape or the placement of the button when it comes to the opening of the tongs (if you were uninformed and using tongs I guess). I'm including a picture of a decap/expander rod out of a 30-30 CMR die...is this standard for the tong tools? No, it's for the Tru-line. Does a seperate expander button dictate that its a die set/rod for a ezy loader or Tru line. No, separate expander came with tong tool dies. The plugs are similar to M dies. Pictures are included elsewhere in this thread. I guess I'm asking how to tell them apart.

Regards, Woody

[wonderwolf]

Regards, Woody

Ok, somewhere along the line the dies got switched with the rod as the die body is stamped CMR SO what we are getting to here is basically you have to have a die set where case mouth expansion is its own die? any die with expanding combined with sizing is no go for the tong tool!?

[woody1]

Yes. Tong tools take minimum of 4 dies; decap+neck size, neck expand, re-prime, seat+crimp.
Regards, Woody

[woody1]

FWIW there's a pretty good treatise on "Handloading With Tong Tools" complete with pictures in the NRA Illustrated Reloading Handbook. It's available for your review and downloading at Castpics. There are also instructions on using Lyman's reloading tools in the various Lyman Handbooks some of which are also on Castpics. Regards, Woody