thats you, i prefer to have skill.
thats you, i prefer to have skill.
My definition of luck is when preparation meets opportunity.
I have the book on Mr Hathcock by Henderson. It's very informative and gives quite a bit of detail about Carlos's wind doping method and how he determined range.
When opportunity presented itself Carlos was extremely prepared. Hence he was lucky quite often.
Some people live and learn but I mostly just live
Reading these last few pages, something occurred to me. Nobody takes into account you are peering through your scope at a living, breathing human, and still take the shot. If anyone doesn't consider the ability to do this a "skill" I strongly disagree. I might be able to do it, I might not. I hope to never know. I for one am glad to have so many talented individuals on "my" side who can.
HITS at "AT A Mile, or More," are luck! If any thinking person factors in Gravity, wind, light, heartbeat, bullet spin, target Movement and mirage they know all the planets were in alignment, FOR just that ONCE! All the training, experience, etc., is not worth squat beyond a mile as enviornmental factors and human target movement are in play. I suggest a few Key Board Long RANGERS try a few 400, 600 or 1,200 shots and then Report back. LOL!
Nothing more to say to the "Keyboarders" here.
Adam
Love Life, it must be nice to be so... "lucky"
I'm quite sure luck came into it a lot. But if people took the training, did the practice and thought very carefully about all they did, they would get luckier than the others.
In my early childhood I knew a man who got into the army with the "Daily Mail" for the 4th August 1914 wadded up inside his boots to make the height. He was made a sniper partly to keep him out of the violence, but he spent four years on the Western Front. He was not only smaller and weaker than the women soldiers of today, but shyer and more timid too. He would agonize for days if he thought he had accidentally been rude to someone, and considered it both his military and Christian duty to send Germans home to collect their pensions if he possibly could. His friends said he never put in any report whether he thought a hit was fatal. They all took it as scientific fact that if you played dirty, Mr. Luck would turn against you.
I do remember him saying, though, that the shooting was the least of it. Even in old age he could demonstrate disappearance if he sat in an armchair or leant on a wall the right way. He said two hundred yards terrified him, for the world was full of people who could shoot just as effectively as him and early in the war the Germans hadn't used up their forest gamekeepers yet. But at 600 he felt safer, and at 1200, he thought, there wasn't a soldier in Germany that knew the business. The more difficult the shooting, the surer he felt of coming out on his feet.
Wit no first-hand knowledge, I would be surprised if they don't have ballistic-cum-environmental handheld calculating devices, possibly including anemometer, compass, GPS, barometer, hygrometer etc.
There is a very interesting rifle and fictional story about it, from the age of the theodolite and pencil and paper, on pages 88 to 102 of this downloaded book:
https://archive.org/stream/firearmsi...e/102/mode/2up
In Carlos' book he talks about the famous shot with the Ma Deuce. He also developed/made the scope mount that went on the 50.
Domari Nolo
They do, and it's non fiction.
http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-te...-rifle-sniper/
"Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it."
~Pericles~
Here you go. This is skill and not luck. It is knowing your rifle and how to use it.
A lot of you shooting modern rifles with high power scopes will have a hard time outdoing this 1874 technology shooting lead bullets driven with black powder with nothing but a blade front sight and semi buckhorn rear sight.
OK I will bite. 1/4" MOA with blade front sight and semi buckhorn rear sight is leaning heavily on the side of luck. Any time you want we can make a wager for for double the group size at $100 per group for 10 groups. When it's time to pay up we can see who got lucky.
BTW that is an awesome group!!!!!!!!
Last edited by M-Tecs; 03-29-2015 at 11:02 PM.
Here are 6 lucky shots at 2163 yards with a 300wsm.
Heres the 5 at the top of the plate....the 6th is at about 8 oclock.
1000 yard cold bore. 300wsm
1000 yards, 4 shots center mass, 5th was a called headshot. 300wsm
1000 yards cold bore suppressed Accuracy International 338 Lapua.
I just laid out a spot to attempt a 1 mile prairie dog kill this summer and a new place for shooting out to 3200 yards. There is a lot more skill involved than luck to make hits at extended ranges.............1000 yards is a warm up range.
Doug
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Sticks and stones may break my bones but hollow points expand on impact.
Taxidermists are cheaper than surgeons....keep shooting
ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Some people measure success in Minutes of Angle
I was hoping you would show up here, dk17hmr.
Yeah, I figured Doug or some other would show up to take some wind out of the "expert's" sails.
By the way, our local long range club has members shooting groups of under 3" at 1000 yards.
Another serious shooter.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...at-1000-yards/
Methinks the expert needs to step away from his keyboard before he shoots himself in the foot again.
The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"
Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!
3 inches at 1,000 is waaaaaayyyyyy 2 legit 2 quit!! I think when this barrel is finally done I'll get another 6mm barrel and roll with the .243 Ackley improved. However, I am drifting...
ETA: I clicked on the link and 1.9557 at 1,000 yds! Holy moly!
I had to go through my facebook pictures to find them.
First 3 shots of the day at a grand 8/24/14
1365 yards 8/24/14
1420 yards, shots #2 and #3 at that distance I blew the wind call on the first shot. 9/20/14
2nd round hit at 1 mile with a 375 cheytac 8/24/14
3 shots 900yards with an AR10 in 308 11/12/14
1 mile today is what 1000 yards was in the 90's.
Doug
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Sticks and stones may break my bones but hollow points expand on impact.
Taxidermists are cheaper than surgeons....keep shooting
ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Some people measure success in Minutes of Angle
The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"
Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!
You guys think consistently hitting your target at super long distances is skill? Nah, that's all luck and your a bunch of keyboarders.
Seriously though, NICE shooting guys. I hope to be that good some day.
Yep,do it again after spending all night in the pissing down rain or lying in the open at the end of a hot summers day with the target at an unknown range across the desert with a cross wind,no sighters,no wind flags,not on a rifle range with marked out ranges and if you stuff up the target shoots back,and you have to get into position by crawling the last few 100 meters dragging your rifle along the ground beside you,see how lucky you are then. Pat
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |