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Thread: Does anyone have anything good to say about H4198 in 7.62x39?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Does anyone have anything good to say about H4198 in 7.62x39?

    I'm interested in trying this powder with a 150gr Jacketed bullet. The traditional 123gr bullets tend to be so short in length that they are completely out of the case before they engage the rifling. This is for a WASR10 AK47 (complete with extremely tall tolerances) variant.
    I'm just hoping to get a bit more accuracy at 100yds.

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy wordsmith's Avatar
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    Works extremely well in AK 47 with 123 gr Hornady SPFB bullets. According to Quickload, I'm only getting 91% propellant burn, so 150's should be perfect and get high 90's for propellant burnt. The only downside is slightly compressed load on the 123 gr, so that's something to consider.

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Many years ago, before 7.62x39 ammunition was available in the US, I tested hand loads in this calber. The presure barrel I used was not CIP but had been back-engineered from an Eastern European SKS, and we used sterile (no headstamp) LC and FA cases with the crimped in M34 government primers. Among the loads tested were 144-grain LPS Ball projectiles pulled from Soviet 7.62x54R rounds, which were loaded withDuPont IMR4198 which was available at the time. A nominal caseful with the bullet seated, so as to permit loaded rounds to fit into an SKS magazine was 24 grains. Pressure measurements using the radial copper crusher method with a drilled case, as is the normal government practice, was within normal limits, based upon use of Lapua 123-grain lead-core ball as reference ammunition. Velocity with the 14-grain bullet was not quite 2100 fps and cycled well in the SKS and RPD.
    These data do not correspond to what you would expect with current components, but only illustrates that 4198 is a suitable powder. I would back off to 22 grains with current production powder.
    The ENEMY is listening.
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  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    I noticed that Hodgdon suggest starting at 22.5 (which, starting at 22.0 is probably smart). This minimum charge looks like it would might create a compressed load, but neither Hodgdon or the Lee manual state that this load will be compressed.

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy
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    Works great for me with 125's in an SKS. For accuracy, I use my AR.

    Dave

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    I'm interested in trying this powder with a 150gr Jacketed bullet. The traditional 123gr bullets tend to be so short in length that they are completely out of the case before they engage the rifling. This is for a WASR10 AK47 (complete with extremely tall tolerances) variant.
    I'm just hoping to get a bit more accuracy at 100yds.
    the Soviet bullets are quite long for their weight, since they have a steel insert. However, the throats are cavernous which is why there's a huge jump.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master Cmm_3940's Avatar
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    I just loaded 500 rds of Hornady 123gr .310" SPFBs with 26 gr of H4198. Hodgdon shows max as 26.5, Hornady shows max as 25.7.

    IMR-4198, which is very similar, has done well for me with 20gr behind the
    Lee C312-155-2R

    work your loads up, and listen to what your gun tells you. It seems like the real limitation with this cartridge is case capacity, but any blowed-up guns are strictly on you.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Cmm_3940's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    I noticed that Hodgdon suggest starting at 22.5 (which, starting at 22.0 is probably smart). This minimum charge looks like it would might create a compressed load, but neither Hodgdon or the Lee manual state that this load will be compressed.
    Hodgdon (or any powder company data) and the Lee manual are the same thing. Don't be fooled into thinking you're getting a second opinion...

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks folks. I'll probably be starting about 6% lower than any published start load I come across. I recently lent my Hornaday manual to my wife's co worker that wants to consider handloading as a hobby. I let him barrow that manual because I hardly use much data from it and I have plenty other sources on the shelf. Sure enough, I lend it out and suddenly need it. That is okay though. I'm not in a hurry and he needs to study the book to make a wise decision.
    Last edited by Animal; 03-17-2015 at 08:36 AM.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    H322 with 160 Lee GC bullet 1800 fps(so they say)

  11. #11
    Boolit Man
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    I am looking at bullets and powder for my custom barreled 14" T/C Contender. Nosler has a 123gn Varmageddon and using H4198 claiming it to be the most accurate in their test barrel. I have IMR4198 is there a difference? Are there heavier bullets that are good in the 7.62x39? I had a few 140gn custom bullets, but don't know who made them . They shot very well, a lot better than any 122 gn that I have tried. the powder I used with them was A1680

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy res45's Avatar
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    Haven't tried the Hodgdon version of 4198 in 7.62 x 39 but the IMR version works well in my SKS rifle so I don't see a reason the H-4198 wouldn't either. I've been shooting H-4198 in several larger capacity cartridge cases with excellent results so I know it's a good powder with excellent accuracy potential on you find the load your particular firearm likes.

    50 yds. iron sights Chinese SKS.

  13. #13
    Boolit Man
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    This group was shot with the Lee 150grn fn with 21.5 grn of imr4198 out of a Yugo SKS with the gas three ON. At 100 yards on a lead sled

    The load is
    Winchester brass FL resized
    Lee 150grn Fn sized to 311. PCed 75/25ww/Pb
    Seated LONG!!!
    21.5 grn IMR4198
    Click image for larger version. 

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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by WinchesterM1 View Post
    This group was shot with the Lee 150grn fn with 21.5 grn of imr4198 out of a Yugo SKS with the gas three ON. At 100 yards on a lead sled

    The load is
    Winchester brass FL resized
    Lee 150grn Fn sized to 311. PCed 75/25ww/Pb
    Seated LONG!!!
    21.5 grn IMR4198
    Click image for larger version. 

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Views:	6 
Size:	54.0 KB 
ID:	246579
    No fair cutting out the flyers! LOL!

    Sent from my SM-J320V using Tapatalk
    My alloy is so proprietary even I don't know what's in it...

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinCan Assassin View Post
    No fair cutting out the flyers! LOL!

    Sent from my SM-J320V using Tapatalk
    Aah yeah but - flyers represent boolit defects so are rightly excluded.

    I reckon that if five out of ten hit in a small (ish) custer while the rest are scattered about, that small cluster represents the actual accuracy potential. It's controlling those scattered abouts that becomes the challenge - but they are not caused by the load itself or the gun.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  16. #16
    Boolit Man
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    LOL well I’ve gotta make my group look decent!

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy
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    In a CZ 527 they cut 1/2" at 100 yards with Privi 123gr SP's and either H4198 or IMR's version.Shot a few deer.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check