Abrasivenss of PC

[nighthunter]

There has been discussion about the abrasiveness of PC on this forum. I'm not the sharpest crayon in the box so I called the company that I get my powder from. I had a 38 minute conversation with a very knowledgeable person that is also a shooter. He told me that PC is basically considered a plastic for discussions of this type. He said PC would be no more abrasive than shotgun wads or sabots in other ammunition. Any component of the PC is suspended in other components of the mix. He compared it to sand and silica used when manufacturing glass. He also said that PC or any other thing used to coat a bullet, such as copper or paper, would eventually show signs of bore wear. Temperature and pressure are considered to be a much larger factor in wearing out a barrel. I am just relaying the information given me by a knowledgeable individual. If you have a different opinion please give your reasoning and source. As for me, I will continue to PC until I am convinced otherwise.

Nighthunter

[nekshot]

thats good to know because I often thought about the possibility of wear. I decided even if it has some extra wear I am staying with it because for me I load these babies like I would carefully assemble a benchrest load albeit with 2000 fps as my top speed for now. A new barrel (or rebore) in a lifetime isn't that bad!

[Beagle333]

I only own bolt guns, levers and revolvers, and I don't shoot any of those competitively, so it probably won't affect me in my time either, even if it were found to wear more than just lubed lead.

[flyingmonkey35]

Let the nay sayers take this a proof that PC will wear out your barrel.

Nevermind the fact so will lead,& copper.

And exactly how many rounds will it take? 30 40 k??

[Schrag4]

I was just in Gander Mountain this afternoon and mentioned to the salesman that I powder coat my boolits, and he told me the coating is abrasive. I told him that I believe him and that I don't care because the money I'll save shooting my own cast and PC projectiles will save me enough for 10 (or likely many more) barrels before the first one wears out.

As a side note, the conversation took that turn when I told him I load 9mm for less than I can buy 22LR. He didn't believe me, and said the major retailers still sell 22LR for about the same price as before, if you're there are the right time. I'm not standing in line, though - I have to go to work in the morning.

[Garyshome]

I was just in Gander Mountain this afternoon and mentioned to the salesman that I powder coat my boolits, and he told me the coating is abrasive. I told him that I believe him and that I don't care because the money I'll save shooting my own cast and PC projectiles will save me enough for 10 (or likely many more) barrels before the first one wears out.

As a side note, the conversation took that turn when I told him I load 9mm for less than I can buy 22LR. He didn't believe me, and said the major retailers still sell 22LR for about the same price as before, if you're there are the right time. I'm not standing in line, though - I have to go to work in the morning.

Everyone is entitled to a WRONG opinion!

[Smoke4320]

Yes PC will wear put your barrel
Many many 1000's of RDS later than a copper jacketed bullet
That salesman had every statement wrong

[NavyVet1959]

As a side note, the conversation took that turn when I told him I load 9mm for less than I can buy 22LR. He didn't believe me, and said the major retailers still sell 22LR for about the same price as before, if you're there are the right time. I'm not standing in line, though - I have to go to work in the morning.

Well, last time I bought .22LRs, a brick (500 rounds) cost around $7-8. These days, if you just happen to be there when they get a brick in, it's $22. Well, at least they still have that listed on the ammo shelf, but I haven't seen a box in I don't know how many years. Assuming that you can recover your brass, 9mm, .38, or .357 can easily be that cheap.

Bullet:
The 105 gr Lee mold is one of the lighter weight bullets, so that will cut your lead costs. Assuming $1 per lb for lead, that works out to be $1 / 7000 * 105 = $0.015 per bullet or $7.50 per 500.

Powder:
I choose Alliant Promo since it is probably the most economical powder that I've seen. It is a Red Dot equivalent.

It cost $130 per 8 lb jug from PowderValley.
Cost per grain = $138 / 8 / 7000 = $0.0023214285714285714285714285714286

For the 105 gr bullet a possible powder load would be 4.0 gr of Promo.
Cost per 500 bullets = $4.9285714285714285714285714285714

Primers:
Current cost of Sellier & Bellot small pistol primers at PowderValley is $22.00 per 1000.
Thus, cost per 500 would be $11.00.

Total Cost = $7.50 (lead) + $4.93 (powder) + $11.00 (primer) = $23.43

Yeah, there's some HAZMAT and shipping charges, but if you buy your powder and primers in large enough quantities, it is minimized on a per-round basis, plus you are likely not paying sales tax on online purchases.

If you want to cut down your shooting costs more than that, you'll probably have to switch to a lighter bullet like a cast round ball. A 0.360" round ball will weigh about 69.2 gr, so at $1 per pound, that would work out to be $4.94 for 500 of them (i.e. 1 / 7000 * 69.2 * 500). This would work out to be $20.87 for 500 loaded rounds. You could reduce the powder charge on the round balls a bit and save a bit more, but at some point, you will not be able to operate the action on a semi-auto. If you're shooting out of a revolver, you have a bit more room to go for truly mouse fart loads.

And, of course, if you can recover your lead in your home bullet trap, your lead costs go down even further.

[Schrag4]

...Primers:
Current cost of Sellier & Bellot small pistol primers at PowderValley is $22.00 per 1000.
Thus, cost per 500 would be $11.00....

Apologies, OP, for the continued thread derailment, but are S&B primers good to go? I'm running low on primers and I'm always looking to save a few bucks. I was going to pay the premium for CCI over Tula, because they seem to seat more consistently, for me anyway. S&B would be a discount over both of those others. Any experiences would be appreciated.

ETA: I'm loading on a turret press, so taking care of stoppages is pretty straight-forward.

[NavyVet1959]

Apologies, OP, for the continued thread derailment, but are S&B primers good to go? I'm running low on primers and I'm always looking to save a few bucks. I was going to pay the premium for CCI over Tula, because they seem to seat more consistently, for me anyway. S&B would be a discount over both of those others. Any experiences would be appreciated.

ETA: I'm loading on a turret press, so taking care of stoppages is pretty straight-forward.

I've never used them, but they are currently slightly cheaper than Tula on PowderValley, so I quoted their price in order to see how low I could currently go with current prices. Many of us have primer and powder from awhile back, so quoting what it costs us with our "old stock" would not be a valid price comparison. The primers that I have are mainly Wolf and Federal. They all go "bang" for me and since I don't shoot benchrest, it doesn't matter for my uses if there is any difference.

[bangerjim]

The many THOUSANDS of us on here that are PC'ing and shooting without any siddernable signs of barel wear is all the proof I need!

So I wear a barrel out in 6 years after shooting 10's of thousands of rounds at pennies a round. No big whoop! FMJ's wear them out faster.

Let the nay-sayers keep naying and braying. I'll keep shooting for pennies a round with hardly any cleaning and NO leading.

banger-j

[kryogen]

well, you know what, I dont care. I wont pay for jacketed, and I wont mess with lube.
wear or no wear, I'm using PC or hitek.

[bangerjim]

^^^^^^THAT is the attitude I can agree with!^^^^^

banger-j

[nighthunter]

My idea in writing this has been to display information from a knowledgeable source. We get to many people on here that sometimes feel their opinion should be accepted as gospel even though they offer no supporting facts for their opinion. I am just trying to get to the truth.

Nighthunter

[ipijohn]

well, you know what, I dont care. I wont pay for jacketed, and I wont mess with lube.
wear or no wear, I'm using PC or hitek.

I am in your camp, a lot of good and no demonstrated bad, at least in the last 18 months or so..... for me that is about 12K boolits.

[bangerjim]

My idea in writing this has been to display information from a knowledgeable source. We get to many people on here that sometimes feel their opinion should be accepted as gospel even though they offer no supporting facts for their opinion. I am just trying to get to the truth.

Nighthunter

Your in-depth reporting from a knowledgable source is intriguing and most valuable. That is the 1st data I have seen that is not just from "people on here that sometimes feel thier opinions should be accepted as gospel".

I simply coat lead, shoot it in a lot of guns, and report my findings, be they positive or negative. No opinion.......just pure unadelterated facts from the range. I don't take pictures......I just do not do that on a regular basis. I provide the facts I discover.

Thank you for sharing the info from your source. It is most welcome and valuable. I too will continue coating until I either see significient degradation or it is proven to me PC is, in fact, bad.


"......the truth is out there......."

banger-j

[JeffinNZ]

Just like aluminium gas checks will wear out your barrel. Ah ha. Not thus far they haven't.

[Love Life]

Here is a test anybody can do at home:

1) Go slug your barrel.
2) Measure slug on 3 places with a Micrometer
3) Record measurements
4) Save slug in a clearly labeled something
5) Determine a round count interval to reslug
6) Go shoot to the required round count
7) Slug your barrel
8) Take measurements at 3 points on the slug
9) Record measurements
10) Save slug in a clearly labeled something
11) Compare measurements of new slug against measurements of old slug
12) Record findings
13) Repeat steps 6-12

Do this until you are happy.

[crashguy]

I'll keep powder coating as well.... the difference in wear seems negligible ..if at all

[RP]

Great comment Love Life info that helps ease the minds of those in limbo. If they see wear they can always stop before the barrel is worn out just lets say fire lapped in.