Did Lee stop making a bullet seating die with roll crimp?

[VintageRifle]

Hello,

Just purchased a Lee rgb 30-06 die set and a pacesetter 30-06 die set. I am disappointed that there was no roll crimp with the rgb set and since I wanted a factory crimp die for jacketed loads I just bought the pacesetter version to get the factory crimp and what I though t would be a seating die with roll crimp for my cast bullet loads.

Just have to say, I am very disappointed that both sets came with a dead length seating die. My last pacesetter die set I bought (used) had the roll crimp feature in the bullet seating die.

Did Lee stop making a roll crimp bullet seating die?

Thanks,
Nick

[texassako]

From what I understand the pacesetter 2 die sets have the seater/crimp die, and the 3 die sets have the dead length since they include the fcd. I did not know the RGB did not have the crimp feature. Good to keep in mind for the future.

[orbitalair]

My RGB 30-06 and 308 dies have a roll crimp.
My set is not that old, couple of years.
Crimp is determined by how far down you set the die relative to brass.

[Bzcraig]

No disrespect intended. Why did you buy both sets? The descriptions clearly state what is included with the die sets. Having said that, you did get a FCD, will that not suffice?

This Is from the Lee Instructions:
Screw the bullet seating die in until you feel it touch the case mouth. If no crimp is desired, back the die out 1/2 turn. If a crimp is desired, turn the die in 1/4 turn. The bullet must have a crimping groove or it cannot be crimped. Case must be trimmed to same length to provide a
uniform crimp. Bullet depth is adjusted by screwing the adjusting screw in or out to suit. Bullets should be seated deep enough to work through the gun’s action. See MaxiMuM overall length on reverse.
CAUTION: Seating bullets excessively deep will reduce the case capacity and increase the pressure.

[VintageRifle]

Got the rgb set first. Didn't have a crimp in the seater die. Bought the pacesetter set because that's what I normally buy and those had a roll crimp. Got the pacesetter in the mail just before I posted and it says "dead length bullet seating die".

What it describes in the die set at purchase is all dependent on what the photo indicates. Online purchases. Prior experience with Lee suggested only the deluxe and collet die sets had the dead length seating dies. The lower sets would have standard seating dies with roll crimp.

Was just going to sell off the rgb set.

I don't like the factory crimp die for cast bullets.

[VintageRifle]

Been running cast in 303 British, 7.5x55 Swiss, 7.62x39, 8mm Mauser, 8x56r, and all had a roll crimp in the seater die.

The new stuff apparently does not.

Same issue with rgb 223 dies. No roll crimp for a cannelure.

[VintageRifle]

No wrench flats on the seater die means dead length bullet seating die without crimp. This is what I found out after the fact.

Sent Lee a message about the seating dies. Will hopefully get a reply soon.

[orbitalair]

I see, yes, mine has the flats.

Did you ask Lee if they have made this a policy change, or is this a matter of some Amazon vendor 'making up' RGB sets from dies they find at gunshows????

[orbitalair]

Checking the website it appears that RGB is now no roll crimp, using the DeadLength bullet seater die,
while the NEW PaceSetter 2 die set, has the roll crimp bullet seater.

Jeez, what a bunch of chumps.

ETA: the Pacesetter 2 die set is the same price as the Pacesetter 3 die set. Only diff being the type of crimp you get. To be able to do both, you have to buy the 2 Die set, plus the FCD seperately.

Again, what a bunch of chumps.

[VintageRifle]

Thanks, I ordered the 3 die pacesetter. Explains that.

I asked Lee what die set I need to order to get a roll crimp.

The last pacesetter 3 die set I had ordered was 7.7 Japanese. It has the roll crimp and using some washers, it is what I used to roll crimp my 30-06 cast loads over the weekend.

[geargnasher]

Just buy RCBS or Redding, you get what you order. Not a Lee bash, I have dozens of sets of their dies, but they're making it tough to buy what you want in one set these days. I have a stack of Lee seating dies, both dead-length and regular, from sets I bought for the other dies.

Gear

[W.R.Buchanan]

Some do and some don't.

I was disappointed that none of the .303 British dies have the roll crimp feature. I got a RGD set and a neck sizer set specifically so I could have two seating dies and use one as a dedicated roll crimper. Didn't happen and I was lucky to pick up a RCBS set for $20 and I'm using the seater for the roll crimp only.

I also got a Collet Crimper for jacketed bullets.

I think Lee is forcing the FCD on people buy not providing the Roll Crimp feature on it's seating dies.

Luckily there are about 25 other brands of reloading dies out there and you should be able to find something used to do whatever you need.

Randy

[VintageRifle]

The 3 die pacesetter 30-06 set image on Lee's website still shows the die with the roll crimp even though that is not included anymore.
All my new die sets have been Lee. I have 2 used RCBS die sets for 7.5MAS and 6.5x55. Lee has my favorite decapping pins as I have never broken on even on heavily crimped military brass.

Looks like it's time to move on or find an older die set.

[VintageRifle]

Well, a friend helped me out today. Gave me a old style bullet seating die with roll crimp he doesn't use.

[MT Chambers]

A set of dies that does not have a crimp feature is a waste of money, just forces you to buy more dies.

[RogerDat]

I went through this with Lee and the 303 British. The 2 die RGB set is all but useless, instead of providing a budget but complete solution it now only gets you 2/3 of the way to loaded cartridge. Takes the FCD or another die that provide a crimping feature die to make a complete set. Or do what I did buy a used 2 die set to get the roll crimp and FL sizing die. Then Lee for the Collet neck sizing and separate bullet seating die.

I could then use neck size + bullet seating + set up the seating die with roll crimp without engaging the seating function, just adjust the bullet seater backed off.

When I called them they said depending on adjustment the FCD would do a roll crimp. http://leeprecision.com/reloading-di...ory-crimp-die/ But it does really make one wonder why they would still be selling the 2 die set.

[Motor]

There is NOTHING WRONG with using the FCD on cast bullets.

You must not understand how it works.

If adjusted properly it will not reduce the size of the bullet in the case. It is not a smooth bore collet. It has raised nubbs if you will, that are about the width of a standard canalure.

These nubbs crimp the brass into the canalure. No other part of the collet should compress the neck.

Motor

[khmer6]

It seems most people over crimp with the FCD. You can also take out the carbide insert and put a very light crimp as well.

[Motor]

khmer6, What carbide insert do you mean? I don't think I've ever seen one on a bottle neck rifle FCD.

As far as pistol FCD's go. Lee should have given them a different name. The crimp function in the pistol version is very similar to a standard crimp die.

The taper crimp is no different. The roll crimp is modified. It's a little more forgiving to differences in case length than a standard roll crimp.

I never use a pistol FCD with cast bullets. I don't want the post sizing caride ring to swage my cast bullet within the case.

Motor

[RogerDat]

When I talked to them they said the FCD for straight wall cartridge was different than for the bottle neck. I'm not sure I really understand the difference well enough to explain it. I think that for straight wall one gets a final sizing from a carbide ring in the FCD but really not sure of that as an absolute fact.

The idea of a separate die for bullet seating and bullet crimp does make some sense, allows each die to be made and set up on the press focused on one task. What makes no sense is to continue selling the RGB 2 die set with dies that only provide sizing and seating. They do tell you what you are getting but it is a fundamental change in the functionality. RGB used to be a stripped down version of the 3 die set, eliminate the accessories, and a useful but not essential die from the 3 die set.

For bottle neck the 4 die set makes the most sense (at least to me) since it provides neck sizing and FL sizing, and saves one the hassle of trying to figure out exactly what "capability" one is going to get.