The 400 Lee Speed project rifle (and friend)

[Von Gruff]

I am not a great fan of cheekpieces but if I was to do one this is about the right shape in my mind. nice curved bottom edge with very symmetrical ends that balance with the overall stock shape. The only detractor (if it could be called that and that is debatable) is the comb fluting. I try to bring the comb nose back a little from the centre of the grip cap )vertically) which has been touted as the correct place to end the comb nose and by having it closer to the rear of the grip cap I can shape the top of the wrist with a narrow comb nose and have no need for the fluting. Of course the more open grip negates this concern but I have a comment or two on that style as well



I should credit the owner /maker of this rifle but I clipped the picture and a few more from AR and didn't note who had done it

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Yes, that is about as good as cheekpieces get. So many people bring them further down or further forward than the really need to be. It is very difficult to make a smooth, unbroken curve all round, into the rest of the butt. So it makes sense to have that slightly stepped-up line.

I'd agree a fluted comb is unnecessary, unless maybe on the sort of stock where someone tries to raise the head to scope level by width instead of height. In any case it only needs to be on the side where your trigger hand will be. With some pistol grips (not, I think, this one, it may make it easier to put a strengthening web of wood on top of the weakest part, without looking clumsy.

Being reminded, I did an eBay search for that Marples chisel, and found a set of five out of six, not too outrageously expensive, but badly rusted. I think I could have restored the ferrule, but I just couldn't bear to have four rusty Marples tools looking accusingly at me.

Still, eBay is marvelous for such things. The Record spokeshave I inherited from my father at the age of two had a cracked blade, from edge to adjusting-screw slot, and I found a replacement blade for that. A good pair of spokeshaves, flat and convex beds, are tools I have a great belief in. Someday I will find a really good shipwright's mast spokeshave, with a concave curve left to right, without paying tool collectors' prices. I'm still not enough of a carpenter to see the grain direction totally reliably. But I can feel it with one of those.

[Frank46]

VonGruff, are you planning to shoot cast or jacketed in your 375 cartridge?. And what twist are you going to use?. This is really becoming a very interesting thread. Frank

[Frank46]

FrankG, I see you mentioned having JES rebore your rifle and using the 37 rimmed in it. Did Jes only do the rebore or did he do both the rebore and rechambering as well?. Frank

[Von Gruff]

Frank, The 303/375 version I used on this rifle is the same one that i have used for over 35 years. It is simply the standard 303 British necked to .375". It has to be fairly simple for me. I like the idea of the 375 2.5" express, But the availability of 303 brass over here wins hands down.
Rifle was chambered with a standard 303 Brit reamer with the appropriate collar fitted, The the neck and throat was reamed with a Manson 375 Neck & Throater.
Cheers Euan.

I had said in an earlier post that I was doing this for a friend and Euan has answered here about the chamber. This is not my rifle so I wont be loading either cast or jacketed but knowing Euan I don't believe it will ever see a bought jacketed bullet although it may have a diet of jacketed made from cut down 223 brass and a forced lead core. Will let Euan answer questions about the loading and shooting of this rifle and will content myself with the 400 which I started this thread to document

[FrankG]

FrankG, I see you mentioned having JES rebore your rifle and using the 37 rimmed in it. Did Jes only do the rebore or did he do both the rebore and rechambering as well?. Frank

JES rebored 375 leaving what was left of chamber and throated it . That way you can just open neck on 303 brass load and shoot . It leaves just the tiniest bit of shoulder on case . And C&H has dies for around $80 .

And now lets go back to Garry's excellent work

[W.R.Buchanan]

I am not a great fan of cheekpieces but if I was to do one this is about the right shape in my mind. nice curved bottom edge with very symmetrical ends that balance with the overall stock shape. The only detractor (if it could be called that and that is debatable) is the comb fluting. I try to bring the comb nose back a little from the centre of the grip cap )vertically) which has been touted as the correct place to end the comb nose and by having it closer to the rear of the grip cap I can shape the top of the wrist with a narrow comb nose and have no need for the fluting. Of course the more open grip negates this concern but I have a comment or two on that style as well



I should credit the owner /maker of this rifle but I clipped the picture and a few more from AR and didn't note who had done it

I would like to know who established all the little relationships of this to that and idiosyncrasies in stock making. I have books on it but it appears there is only some loose rules and the rest is left to your imagination. I guess a lot of it has evolved over the centuries and I know that what is considered right in this era is slightly different than 80 years ago. One feature I am aware of is how Combs now are more in line with the bore than previously was done. Reduction of Felt Recoil being the motivator for this change.

The few I am aware of came from a Whelen Catalog, and the one I have heard elsewhere is that the top line of the flutes should aim at the toe of the stock when done. I used that one on my Marlin 1895 when I redid the stock on it.

On this stock one of the subtleties is how the Shadow Line progressively increases in width from front to back and it looks like he got it perfect. Also a cool piece of wood, however I don't care for the checkering pattern at all as the back line doesn't go with the rest of the curves on the wrist and cheek piece at all. I think a Fleur de Leis pattern would have been more appropriate in this case. Given the beautiful Cheek Piece it is like the pattern's complexity is not similar or equal to that other work?

I guess all of this comes down to beauty in the eye of the beholder or maybe just my .02.

Randy

[Von Gruff]

I have done quite a piece on the rifle stock on another forum so during the day I will copy it over here for a discussion on the stock design

[W.R.Buchanan]

Garry; any information will be appreciated, and your skill level is such that I personally would listen closely.

Maybe others will as well.

Randy

[Von Gruff]

Some points to start a discussion

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...he-Rifle-Stock

[woodbutcher]

Hi Gruff.Outstanding craftsmanship.Thank you sir for a delightful thread.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[Von Gruff]

The ACC 415-320W mould arrived along with some 405 Win cases so a quick casting session and trimming the 405 cases back to 2.410 allowed the bullet to be seated out to 3.065 which worked through the mag. The reamer was in the same package so within the next couple of weeks it should be at the GS to have a L E barrel stubbed to suit the 400 barrel and it will be all on for finishing the forestock and getting to shooting.
Shortening the cases to 2.425 and then they were trimmed to length (click to view vid)


And a dummy cartridge alongside a couple of 303's

[Von Gruff]

Having changed the grip cap for ebony the forend tip was due to be done and the package that I had been waiting for with the reamer had arrived but it also contained a piece of ebony along with a cast bullet mould (Toms ACC 415-320W) and some other needed bits and pieces thanks to a forum member.
There is enough ebony to get 3 tips and caps out of this piece





Having reshaped the trigger guard to have a waist it seemed only right to ease the transition into the TG over the sharp edges of the rear screw lugs so thie 400's action was treated to this modification and my 303's was done at the same time


Hope to organise the GS to stub a Lee Enfield barrel to replace the flat collar that the 400 has at the moment and get it reamed out to the length I need for the dummy cartridge within the fortnight so this project is heading for completion soon.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Garry: I did the same Rear Screw Lug easing mod to both my #4's. It makes a big difference in the feel when you're coming up on the trigger pull. That sharp edge is annoying to say the least. I figured it out right off.

I think you would see more "detailing" of firearms if people just fondled their guns more. I usually sit in front of the TV at night holding whatever gun I'm working on,,, touching it and rubbing on it, cocking and dry firing, until I find all the sharp edges.

What people don't realize is that not doing this will sometimes result in finding these little problems when you least expect them and redirecting your attention to a cut trigger finger when you need to make the shot is not what you are looking for. It can be easily avoided by simply handling the gun a lot before you use it.

My Ruger Super Blackhawk Bisley feels great until you cock it. Then the front edge of the trigger hangs below the frame of the gun and it is so sharp it will cut you. This is not something you want from a gun who's primary purpose would as a back up gun in the field. Simply buffing a radius on that front edge so it fairs in with the frame instead of hanging below it solved the problem.

This is also something I never would have found with out extensive handling of the gun during my detailing phase.

Most all generic guns need some amount of hand work to be nice. Ex Military weapons come under this heading too. The cheaper the gun the more work they will need. And this is specifically because of the fact that eliminating hand work on guns is the best way to reduce their cost.

I also gives you the opportunity to make the gun yours in a meaningful way.

Randy

[Von Gruff]

Exactly that and I do the same when I am getting to the end stage of shaping the stock by having it sit by my chair in the evening and picking it up and mounting it dozens of times which is the only way to really to isolate the compromise we accomadate if it is held in hand for any length of time. It needs constant "fresh" hands to really "feel" the subtleties of handling.
I rang the GS yesterday so I could arrange to have the work done that is next on the adgenda for the 400 but he is away for a few weeks so everything is on hold for the time being, at least for the 400 although I got the tip shaped to the forend as it sits .
I was given a couple of bits of buffalo horn so had made a grip cap for the 303 Lee Speed I did a while back so cut the hardwood one off and replaced it with the buff horn

[Von Gruff]

Having had to remove some finish to get the grip cap finished correctly I decided to do some more work on the rifle and having been very pleased with the easing of the top of the wrist socket that had been don on the 400 and the 375 I decided to do the same for the 303

.
Since I had to refinish the whole of the butt stock it seemed only right to change the hardwood forend tip for some buff horn as well











Have it with the first coats of finish on it at the moment and think it has improved the visual of the rifle and pleases me

[BigEyeBob]

That rifle is looking really schmiko Garry .I like the lines nice and sleek .

Kev.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

That is beautiful work, and the sort of stock a Lee-Enfield begs for. A lot of people are dismayed by the cost of one-off gunsmithing projects, as compared with small production runs using the same technology. But what they fail to realize is how much time needs to be spent in thinking, and if it isn't, they will wish it had. I do think horn is more likely to be satisfactory for grip and even forend cap than ebony, which can crack or shrink.

There are one or two things I might do differently. I would remove the cut-off and make the top edge of the wood straight, to cover the slot, as you said you have mentioned. I think I would use the 3in. diameter roller on my belt sander to make the rear surface of the forend tip concave, and carve the walnut to match, with graphite dust to reach a perfect fit. On my sporting straight-pull Mannlicher I made that cap in ebony, not more than 3/4in. from front to rear, and all curved. There is hardly any way a blow could break that curved glue-joint. Not that there is much risk of that with epoxy, but I like to think I was imitating what the late Victorians might have done, with their weaker glues.

This is a digression, but I hate to see "resin" reproductions of gun parts which were actually vulcanite, aka ebonite or hard rubber. They scratch more easily, and there is usually a shine and translucency about them which doesn't look quite right. The big market for ebonite nowadays, but only in rod form, is tobacco pipes, and I have some pipe stem blanks on order to make the bolt knobs for my two Schmidt-Rubin 1889s. They will be very dark brown, which isn't right, but neither is the carroty hue of the few resin repros I have seen.

In case anyone who makes such accessories is watching, here is the best supplier I know of the sealers and fillers for making genuine moulded vulcanite. I think price, and possibly equipment, put it out of reach of the amateur.

http://www.ebonite-arts.de/en/produc...iv-sealant.php

[Von Gruff]

I am going to call this one done now, except for bluing of course. After the new barrel, grip cap, and forend tip in buff horn and the strip back and re-finish I took it out for a shot and it was shooting low enough that I removed the dovetailed front sight blade and filed off the top of the ramp and hand cut a new dovetail. I found the blade @ .05 just a bit thin to pick up so split a piece of steel that is .125 thick and after filing the original blade down and thinning it toward the top, tapped the new blade over it. It makes a sight I can seen now and is what I did for a couple of other front sight blades I have. When I worked out the height I needed to file it down to I found it would come too close to the top of the split so filed off the dovetail and cut a new one. Went out for a few more shots and as I have not worked up a load for this barrel yet so just had the 17.3gn of blue dot load that has shot in other 303's and while the"group" was nothing to write home about it was centered over the point of aim at 50 yds so I can now start load work-up.
I have some babbit enriched bullets aged up and ready to go so I can start to find out what this one will do.

[bremraf]

That is beautiful! Someday, when the kids are grown maybe I'll have the time to produce such a fine looking rifle. I enjoy the building of them almost as much as shooting them.