The 400 Lee Speed project rifle (and friend)

[Von Gruff]

Both the owner of the 375 and I have been aperture sight shooters for quite some time and these will both be sighted with them as are our other Lee Speed rifles in 303. I will definitely be looking for a dust cover for my 400 so I have a light and a heavy rifle with the 303 and want them to both look the same so if anyone has a dust cover that they would sell on I would be most gratefull.
There was a scope sighted Mk l* (LSA) that my fried bought home from the gun show a few weeks back and that had a QD side mounted scope and the dust cover had much of the left side cut away for the side mount. Personally I think the aperture sight is more than suitable for out to 180-200 yds and in that case a scope may just be a superfluous encumberance.
I have used ebony on rifles for both caps and tips for a while and haven't struck the trouble you speaks of as yet. I hadn't been chasing buff horn although I do have a couple of bits that could be made into caps if I was so inclined but will hold off on that till the forend tip can be made from the same material.
While I can do the grip cap in wood or horn, doing the same thing from Damascus is a step further than my inclination goes.
I have to disagree on the use of my full sized router for making the caps as having been in the joinery/cabinet making and carpentry business after starting back in 1967 and even though I may be retired now, I think I have a reasonable handle on what is safe and what is chancey.
The first one was simply a trial and since then a solid plate has been made for the base of the router and with the two pins in the hold down plate the next ones I made were as stable and firmly held as could be had so I will continue to make them like this.

[Frank46]

Which version of the 375/303 cartridge did you use?. I frequent the nitroexpress.com site about once a week and the gents there were kind enough to dig up a print for me of the 37 rimmed. Which is the 303 cartridge necked up to 375 with no other changes. I have a 1x14 twist 375 bbl and plan on using cast bullets only from about 250 to 300 grains. And will be done up using either a #5 action or a #4 action. Still undecided as yet. Love your work. I'm one of those that need a good solid guide when cutting wood. Even then it doesn't always turn out like I want. Frank

[Von Gruff]

Frank,

I believe that the same chamber is in this barrel. This is not a cartridge I have loaded for so don't have the data that will be used for it. I know I am looking forward to getting the 400 shooting though. Lots to learn with this one.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Which version of the 375/303 cartridge did you use?. I frequent the nitroexpress.com site about once a week and the gents there were kind enough to dig up a print for me of the 37 rimmed. Which is the 303 cartridge necked up to 375 with no other changes. I have a 1x14 twist 375 bbl and plan on using cast bullets only from about 250 to 300 grains. And will be done up using either a #5 action or a #4 action. Still undecided as yet. Love your work. I'm one of those that need a good solid guide when cutting wood. Even then it doesn't always turn out like I want. Frank

I think the .375/.303 to which you are referring is the Westley Richards cartridge also known as the .375 x 2½in. Nitro-Express? I doubt if there is any significant difference in performance, ease of loading etc., but the snag is that you would have to use .405 Winchester brass, which is more expensive and not in totally reliable supply like the .303 is. On the other hand, in ouir heart of hearts we all want something we can call nitro-express.

[BigEyeBob]

Nice work Gruff . I like the style of the stock .
I have made a grip cap from buffalo horn using my router table to shape it ,the first one took off at great speed and had a couple of chunks out of it. The second one came out good ,I made it for my 96 Mauser in 25-303 which I am getting around to restocking
It's the end grain that causes the problem I think .
I like your holding tool for the job though Its a good idea .

Yes , to scope or not , I don't know , my recent BSA Lee Metford purchase has a comb on the stock and a lot of drop , it also has been drilled and tapped for a side mount ,with threaded plug screws now hiding the threaded holes.Today I managed to find and purchase side mount that is compatable and will decide whether I will fit it or not .
I may look at getting a butt stock with less drop and a pancake type cheek piece .Depends on how the rifle fits .
Ill find out when I get it in my hands. Just waiting on the Fuzznicks to get my Permit back .
Kev

[Von Gruff]

You got a good score with that mag Kev but I agree that the stock needs some work. It looks like it was done with an idea to make the rifle conform to some modern style some time back, but somehow it has missed the mark. A small detail but that is a great base to work from. When I was doing a stock for a martini cadet a while back that was to be used with a scope I simply changed the exit point of the stock bolt hole by coming down the butt by a good 3/4 " and that effectively raised the comb line while keeping the overall shape the same as original and while a close look showed the lines had changed, the familiar shape was retained, without the need for raised cheekpieces etc.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I neither knew nor would wish to disparage your experience or skill with the router. But for the average gun tinkerer with an occasionally used router in his workshop (me to perfection) I think it is risky. I believe I would epoxy the workpiece to a stout slab of wood with an intervening sandwich of wood and brass sheet the size of the desired buttcap. The pilot of the router bit would rest on brass without wearing the edge of the workpiece, and it could be sawn off through the wood when finished. Just a little heat should then liberate the brass without damaging the ebony or horn.

I have see stocks much, much worse than Kev's. I still have a 1968 Parker-Hale catalogue with some sporting Lee-Enfields. The cheaper grades, No1 and No4, ran from cut-down military woodwork to plain but rather pleasing new stocks. But the "best" grade, only a No4, had a straight forend with backsloped, California-style tip in contrasting wood, a high Monte Carlo cheekpiece (they used shotguns at Monte Carlo!) and white-like spacers. James Paris Lee could have hacked Roy Weatherby on the shins for that.

Kev's butt looks to have some nice checkering, and certainly a lot of checkering, and it would be a shame to scrap it. The cheekpiece curves up at the rear, which serves no useful purpose, and it would look less elevated if it was straightened in line with the rest of its length. If it was thinned at the top, it might well bring the eye into line with an aperture sight.

When I was helping someone build a light sporting Martini-Enfield once, I ground a curve into the rear edge of the butt socket. More than appearance, the idea was to reduce the chances of a notorious Martini disease, chips of wood coming away at the front top of the stock. There should be no need for this on the Lee action, but it bears thinking about.

I also bent the stock supporting bolt where it emerged from its threaded socket to give it a straighter stock. This means you can't turn the bolt, so it has to be full-length, and the butt draw tight by a nut immediately under the buttplate. But this lets you out of any weakness at the bottom of the head-diameter hole, which is fine in a military stock, but not a slimmer one. The picture is my hole-drilling... er... thing.

[Euan]

Which version of the 375/303 cartridge did you use?. I frequent the nitroexpress.com site about once a week and the gents there were kind enough to dig up a print for me of the 37 rimmed. Which is the 303 cartridge necked up to 375 with no other changes. I have a 1x14 twist 375 bbl and plan on using cast bullets only from about 250 to 300 grains. And will be done up using either a #5 action or a #4 action. Still undecided as yet. Love your work. I'm one of those that need a good solid guide when cutting wood. Even then it doesn't always turn out like I want. Frank

Frank, The 303/375 version I used on this rifle is the same one that i have used for over 35 years. It is simply the standard 303 British necked to .375". It has to be fairly simple for me. I like the idea of the 375 2.5" express, But the availability of 303 brass over here wins hands down.
Rifle was chambered with a standard 303 Brit reamer with the appropriate collar fitted, The the neck and throat was reamed with a Manson 375 Neck & Throater.
Cheers Euan.

[FrankG]

The 375 on 303 brass is the same one I had JES bore the 303 tired barrel out to .Simple fix for a bad bore. Only problem was the feed ramp does not like the 375449 Lyman bullet unless you run the bolt forward like you mean it !
Im still working on my stock , with Garrys guidance .

[BigEyeBob]

The cheek piece is also dished ,I suspect it was made for some one with a very fat face. The checkering goes all the way over the top of the wrist and has just a thin space about 3-4mm along the bottom ,almost complete wrap around .I will lok at Scottys suggestion when I get my mits on it and probably call Gordon Cussens to see what he says.

[Frank46]

I had given some thought to the 375x2 1/2 nitro express but in reading some posts on the nitroexpress forum where a poster in the lee speed forum was having problems with either getting it to feed from a standard lee enfield mag or the cartridge as loaded was too long for the standard lee enfield mag and that the lee speeds had a specific mag for that cartridge. What won me over to the 37 rimmed was that I already had lots of new brass in both remington, and IVI military brass from Canada. But also have some Sellier & Bellot, Greek HXP and privi brass all once fired. Plus I got a nice 375 blank on gunboards. Just have to scrape up enough $$$ and go to PTG and get a finish reamer made up. I'm getting some different styles of cast boolits from some very kind members here to get an idea of what the throat dimensions should be and will send some dummy rounds along with the copy of the 37 rimmed print and hopefully they can build a reamer for me. Not hunting anymore so should get some good range time with this. Iron sights or scope is what I am trying to decide on. Have a nice Lyman 10x All American scope with the adjustable objective. Unfortunately not really familiar with the gunsmiths down here. So don't know what they are capable of doing. Frank

[lar45]

Von Gruff. I have been following your Lee Speed builds and can't really find the correct words, except WOW. Your work is just outstanding. I wish that I lived down under and could just sit quietly in the corner and watch how you do what you do. Thank you for posting all the pics with the narative of how and why along at each step.
I love your choice of caliber, you should be able to get that 320 up to almost 2300 fps.
I've had a stock blank still sitting in it's box for the better part of 10 years. Your work is inspiring, I may get the block out and start whittleing on it.

Glenn.

[Von Gruff]

Thanks Lars, I have played with wood for most of my life but it is the metal side of the addiction where I have little experience. A hacksaw, grinder and files are about the extent of my metalworking tools and if I cant do it with that I have to take it to someone who can, so that puts the brake on some of my projects. I really admire the things that skilled men can do with the lathe and mill but the cost of setting up and the time to learn them makes it unreasonable to think about at my age.

[Gert Odendaal]

Being a carpenter most of my years and haveing seen a few guys lose fingers.
Your router work scares me I'd never try that by hand.
Watched my father lose a finger on a radial arm saw. It was turned off and just barely turning when he reached in to get a small piece of wood out.

Buzz Ludman says" do one thing a day that scares you" it seems Von Gruff is not easily scared......or another saying " no pain , no gain..." this procedure can be done with relative safety build in by working against the rotation and adjusting small steps to get to the desired profile. I do all my buffalo grip caps free hand , the only thing that needs to be taken in to account is that you need to be fresh and not tired when doing this type of router work. Von Gruff your work is of outstanding quality, like mentioned before, I would have like to have you as a mentor...thank you kindly for sharing your skills.

Gert

[Von Gruff]

Von Gruff, I love your choice of caliber, you should be able to get that 320 up to almost 2300 fps.

Glenn.

That is what QL has been telling me with 3031 seeming to be the best bet with 2300fps within 42 - 43k psi

[MaLar]

Buzz Ludman says" do one thing a day that scares you" it seems Von Gruff is not easily scared......or another saying " no pain , no gain..." this procedure can be done with relative safety build in by working against the rotation and adjusting small steps to get to the desired profile. I do all my buffalo grip caps free hand , the only thing that needs to be taken in to account is that you need to be fresh and not tired when doing this type of router work. Von Gruff your work is of outstanding quality, like mentioned before, I would have like to have you as a mentor...thank you kindly for sharing your skills.

Gert

Not everyone is tool savvy. And when I go to work on a rifle or fix some thing delicate.
I'm glad to have all my digits.

It's not just an inconvenience to lose a finger.
I'll tell a friend about Van Gruff I'm sure he'll fell better about sawing of his trigger finger.

[Hamish]

Not everyone is tool savvy. And when I go to work on a rifle or fix some thing delicate. I'm glad to have all my digits. It's not just an inconvenience to lose a finger.
I'll tell a friend about Van Gruff I'm sure he'll fell better about sawing of his trigger finger.

Its kind of the same thing when you look at how some folks jump out of airplanes into the ocean with guns strapped to them to make night raids in the face of good odds they may not return, and some folks are scared to death of roller coasters,,,,,,(shrug). What is "dangerous" for some is merely a situation with controlled variables for others.

VG's chisel work, and anyone who takes care and pride in their inlet work, are a constant reminder to me on the lesson of patience. At some point I would like to see VG add a pic or two of how he sharpens. As important as a good eye and a steady hand are, I have always been fascinated by the different ways folks keep their tools sharp, and first and foremost, to do this kind of work, the tools must be SHARP.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Thanks Lars, I have played with wood for most of my life but it is the metal side of the addiction where I have little experience. A hacksaw, grinder and files are about the extent of my metalworking tools and if I cant do it with that I have to take it to someone who can, so that puts the brake on some of my projects. I really admire the things that skilled men can do with the lathe and mill but the cost of setting up and the time to learn them makes it unreasonable to think about at my age.

It annoys me a bit when I hear someone saying, about fine craftsmanship of any kind, "He must have wonderful hands." Pain is not total evidence of gain, and a person can have all the skills and technical training in the world, and do very well when someone hands him a dimensioned drawing and says "Make this." But on a project like yours, it's nothing beside the ability to see pictures in your head, and know what you want to get done.

Back on cheekpieces, I think any sort of concave cheekpiece (lengthwise) is a mistake. It ought to slide along your face in recoil, without jolting your head upwards. Even an upward curve behind the static position of your cheek can do that as the rifle bounces back from your shoulder. About fifteen years ago I had thoracic surgery - nothing cardiac, but it was only years later, when I had an x-ray, that I realized how far down the stainless staples went. Three weeks later I still had trouble finding a comfortable position in which to lie, but I fired a friend's 6.5mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer with no discomfort at all. I wish I had tried my .300H&H. I'm still convinced that whatever we might imagine about the shoulder, it is a jolted brain that causes recoil discomfort.

You have got Marples carving tools, made in another but I'm sure not more salubrious part of Her Majesty's Dominions! I bought the set of six of those little brown handled ones somewhere around 1969, for £4 4 shillings. I never liked them quite as much as the even smaller ones with boxwood handles which I had bought for £1 17/6 when I was at school. I accidentally dropped one of that set in my airline hand baggage a few years ago, and had it confiscated in the airport. But it was only one of the flat chisels, and I can make that blade when I find any one of the set on eBay.

[Gert Odendaal]

Regarding the strange designed cheek piece, (my .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer ) as you pointed it out as a mistake in design , I will be shooting this rifle shortly with it`s strange cheek piece and let you know how comfortable it is/not is.. Von Gruff, my apologies if I trespass on your thread...but knowing you to be a craftsmen of great skills willing to share your knowledge with us, this insert will be acceptable to you... your project really is of outstanding quality and skill...

[Von Gruff]

Yes the flat chisels are marples that were recomended as the best back when I started my apprenticeship in the late 60's and I have never had any reason to doubt their quality. They take and hold an excellent edge that I sharpen with "feel" My father was very good at getting knives sharp and I probably wore out a couple learning to keep a common angle and so it was a simple matter to transfer that to my chisels and plane blades. I hold to the angle and work in small circles till I have gone the full length of the stone then turn the stone and do the same again and a small burr has been raised. Keeping to this type of sharpening keeps the stone as flat as is possible, then I will make a couple of strokes with the back of the chisel flat on the stone to remove the burr. A single stroke again on the face to raise a miniature burr and a second stroke on the back is all it takes. A sharp chisel will be able to cut a fine shaving of end grain and leave the face of the cut smooth.
My set of carving chisels are Marples as well and I sharpen the with slip stones.

My planes (#4 1/2, rebate, and palm) along with spokeshaves (flat and curve based) are all English Stanley except the palm plane (still a Stanley) which is made in the US.

Both these sets of chisels and the planes / spokeshaves have given me near 50 years of excellent service and will continue to do so long after I have gone.