Noe 301 200

[nighthunter]

Yesterday I ordered the NOE 301 200 and I figure it will be here by mid week. I'm planning to pp this bullet For 30-06 and .308. The 30-06 is an O3A3 that I've had for nearly 60 years. The .308 was my fathers favorite deer rifle. It is a 98 Mauser with a cut back and rechambered Springfield barrel Do any of you knowledgeable folks have any suggestions about things I could get ready while waiting for the mold to arrive? I've been doing a lot of reading in this thread and I'm looking forward to giving PP an honest try.


Nighthunter

[Archey]

That mould looks like it should be just the thing for the 308 and -06. I am not sure how experienced you are so I will answer your question as if you are new to paper patching. To get ready, look for a source of good paper, find something to use as a patch lube, make a patching board, make a patch temple for that boolit. If you have not already, you should read Paul Matthews book titled "The Paper Jacket". It details everything about smokeless paper patching.

[303Guy]

Have you done chamber casts or pound casts? It would help to know the shape and dimensions of the throats. Once you've cast some boolits you would then try different paper thickness to fit the throats.

I check boolit fit in the throat by dropping it in them pressing it firmly into the throat with a brass rod that has a mark on it to tell me the relation of the boolit base to the neck/shoulder junction. I adjust the boolit length and/or paper thickness to get it just right. I can do that with my home made molds.

Alloy strength and required alloy components is something you could be looking into. I have concocted an alloy that is quite tough. I used pewter for the tin and added copper to the mix for toughness. If you're interested, I tin the copper using the pewter then dip it into the melt, holding it there until it has dissolved. It would be easier I think, to dissolve the copper into the pewter first as it is the tin that dissolves it, then casting alloying ingots. Unfortunately, I have lost the data for my alloy so I have to start again.

[nighthunter]

Thanks for the replies. This is pretty much a new adventure for me. I've been interested for a long time in PP and recently decided there is no better time to start than now. I'm doing the pound cast now but have to wait till tomorrow to pick up a better rod for down the barrel. I'm familiar with adding copper to the alloy as I have been doing that for awhile now. I'm glad to hear it suggested for PP alloy. I'll check back and look for more suggestions.

Nighthunter

[wmitty]

nighthunter:

Ben's liquid lube (see Boolit Lube!) seems to be a pretty effective way of both lubricating and waterproofing a patched boolit, and it is easy to make. You can dry patch and then dip the patched slug in water and allow to dry and shrink tight; then dip the boolit in the BLL and stand on it's nose in an empty cartridge box to allow excess to run off. It dries pretty quickly, especially in the presence of warm air. Trim off the twisted tail and run thru a sizer die (or not) and they're ready to load.

[nighthunter]

Thanks wmitty. You answered a question before I could ask it. It was gonna be about what substance to use for a patch lube. I received my mold Saturday and got some cast up. I've been cutting patches from 4 different papers to try and have a few bullets patched. I didn't think it possible for paper to compact as much as it does when run through a sizing die. Pretty impressive. I wish there was a thread here with pictures showing more step by step detail of the patching process. At least this project is making me think a bit.

Nighthunter

[Old Coot]

Nighthunter,
If your question is: "How do I apply the patch?" perhaps I can help.
I use Morrilla brand tracing paper and patch with it soaking wet. 1. Lay out about 2/3 of the wet patch on your patching board. This can be a board or just a mouse pad. 2. Lay the bullet to be patched on the board across the patch so that the paper will cover the ogive where it will contact the rifling. Lay the bullet with the nose pointing to the right if you have a right twist barrel. 3. If you are going to twist the tail of the patch to cover the base be sure that you have enough paper extending off the base of the bullet to do so. 4. Pick up the tail of the wet patch and lay it across the bullet so that paper now lies across the top of the bullet. 5. Put your finger on the top of the patch over the bullet and gently roll the bullet and paper forward across the board until the patch covers the bullet and leaves a tube sticking out the back or left end. 6. Pick up the bullet and with the finger and thumb of the other hand GENTLY twist the paper until the paper can be pushed up against the bullets base. 7. Stand the bullet base down in a plastic cartridge tray or other reciptical. 8. When dry , usually over night, take the patched bullet and clip the tail (I use a pair of diagonal wire cutters) off. 9. Apply your lube of choice (45,45,10 recluse, johnson's paste wax, or what ever) load and go see if it works.
It also helps if you have some kind of line drawn, scribed, or taped on the patching surface. This line gives you a mark to locate the bullet base against and helps keep the bullet and patch rolling straight . Brodie

[Old Coot]

Nighthunter,
If you want to fold the base of the patch over the bullet base all you need to is: Locate the bullets base less than the radius of the bases' diameter from the edge of the patch, and after the patch has been rolled onto the bullet pick up the bullet and holding it at an angle to the patching board gently roll the whole edge of the base across the board so that the patch folds and can be pressed flat onto the base. I got this one from 303 Guy who has done a world of testing and research with paper patching.
Your best accuracy will come from patching to a tight fit to a fired and unsized case mouth.
Also, using a mouse pad for a patching surface has a benefit in that it is a little easier to impose more stretch onto the paper as you patch it. This makes for a good tight patch after drying, and they seem to work better for me.

If you want to dry patch talk to 303 Guy he has done more of that than I. My old fingers just aren't that nimble. Brodie

[nighthunter]

I bought some paper today that is 25% cotton and it definitely rolls onto the bullet much easier without tearing. It is a little thicker (24#) but it sizes down the same as the other paper. That's what I was saying about the compression of the paper. Bullet rolled and dried was .320 coming out of the sizer die it was .311. I have some done with tracing paper, some with reqular printer paper and some done with paper from old phone books. I figure one of them will do better than the other 3 and then I'll work more with whichever one that is. I figure lubing the patched bullet is to make it easier to run through the sizing die. Getting interesting.

Nighthunter

[wmitty]

What is the as cast diameter of the boolit with your alloy? Lubing helps in sizing and reduces abrasive tendencies of paper in the barrel, from what I've been told. Shot some groups last nite with the Lyman 378674 PP'ed using the Ben's LL as patch lube in a .375; worked well. I'd used Johnson's paste before, which also worked fine.

Be sure and let us know how the new boolit works out.

[nighthunter]

bullet measures .3015 from the mold. After patching and sizing they are measuring .310 to .311. I think there is a little spring back or the thicker paper just adds .001 to the compressed diameter. My sizing die usually gives me .3095 with a traditional cast bullet. I mixed up some of the Ben's lube and it is easy to apply and it gives the paper a waxed paper feel after sizing but the paper layers will easily separate from each other which I figure is necessary for the patch to shred after firing. My next question for you guys is about the sizing of my brass. I've read to use unsized to sized but to use an over sized expander plug. Would partial sizing of the neck so that 1/8 to 3/16 inch of the neck held onto the bullet with normal tension?

Nighthunter

[wmitty]

I wound up tightening (wouldn't call it crimping or sizing) the neck of my cases very slightly by running them into a Lee factory crimp die. Can't over do this or you will damage the patch with the case neck. If you have a Lee collet die, you can reduce the case neck i.d. to where you can gently twist the patched boolit into position and it will stay. I'm speaking of hunting rounds; for target ammo I leave cases unsized and let the base of the boolit sit on top of the powder charge. Remember to carry a brass rod with you to bump the slug out of the throat if you decide to chamber a round but not fire it. And carefully remove the case from the chamber or you will have a mess (never happened to me, though).