S&b PRIMERS

[wgr]

Anyone use theses in their 45-70 and black ? if so how did they work? Can get theses a lot cheaper than others. thinks bill

[Postell]

I use there LRM primers with black in 47-70 & 45-90 and they seem no different that Fed GM LRM primers to me.. And half the price. Also no feeding issues with using a Lee autoprime and two different Dillon machines.

[wgr]

thinks for the fed back. bill

[cajun shooter]

I don't have a lot of money these days as my wife and I are now living on my SS checks so I have to watch my spending. Having said that, being frugal with the purchase of primers may be fine if you are shooting hundreds of rounds in a dirt pit on weekends but not for any type of serious handloading chores.
The primer is a very major part of the entire process and can make the difference in hits and misses downrange.
If you don't ever clean your brass, trim back your cases, worry about OAL, check for out of round rounds, use powders that produce accuracy and not just FPS. then by all means, just stick any primer that will go bang in those cases. Enjoy that shooting session David

[EDG]

Everyone will have a different opinion even though they did not know S&B made primers.

Get a 100 or 200

Make up a set of test rounds and see how they perform.
It might cost a few dollars but then you will know exactly what results you will get.

[aspangler]

I use the S&B and the Wolf interchangeably. I have not found any difference in them. I use them in all my centerfire cartridges. No differance in accuracy at the longest range I have to shoot. (250 yards)

[cajun shooter]

I have never seen a single serious target shooter list S&B primers as the best primer for any loads. I shoot nothing but BP and have read several books by Steve Garbe, Mike Venturino, Paul Matthews, Fadala, Wright and many others. Not one of these have ever had nor stated to use S&B primers in your loads. A primer can make a huge down range difference in your loads and should be picked with care.
If you just want to go bang with the ammo then as I said before, load any primer that will fit.
I don't think anyone would even waste the time for a side by side comparison. Just shooting downrange and then shooting for the smallest group possible are two different things, like comparing apples and oranges.

[M-Tecs]

Sellier & Bellot is Czech company who has been in business since 1825. I use a lot of the Russian primers for my competition loads but I have very limited experience with Sellier & Bellot primers but I would test them against my best loads to see to the cost savings is worthwhile.

[Dan Cash]

For some folks, a F150 pick up just won't do; it must be a Cadillac. I wonder how many folks shoot well enough to truly tell the difference in primers?

[aspangler]

When it comes right down to it, it is the "nut behind the butt" that makes the difference.

[MattOrgan]

The well known gun writers tend to write about things they are given to test, either consumables or guns and other equipment. They certainly are not in the "consumer reports" mode of testing and writing, so idolizing them should be with this understanding. Advertising pays their salaries, not subscriptions. I was a primer and other component purist right up until things got difficult to find and then I became pretty glad to buy what I could find. For the first time in my life I bought reloading components and handloaded ammunition at yard sales. I disassembled the ammunition and discarded the powder, but I re-used everything else including the primers in cast bullet loads.
Accuracy was unchanged at 50 and 100 yards. I also was given a bunch of primers from the 1950's of the domed type, other than having to fabricate a primer punch these primers have worked great, look cool, and produced 1/2 minute groups from my .308 just like the impossible to find Federal match primers I insisted on in the past. My experience with black powder cartridges is limited to the .38/40 in a Winchester 92 and two .45/70s, a Marlin 1895 and a Trapdoor Carbine. My findings based on chronographing and bench testing is this: Any primer that ignites the black powder is good enough, that cast bullet quality and fit in the throat is key to accuracy.

If if I could find S&B primers in my area at 1/2 the price I'd buy all I could afford and not look back.

[Ilwil]

Well said, Matt Organ.

[1johnlb]

I don't shot bp but have gone through several thousand s&b lr primers in reduced load cast rounds. I've always used cci lr in the past because of avalability and can only compare them. The s&b seem hotter than the cci 200 but not as hot as the 250 magnums, hot enough to enlarge the pockets after several rounds in the non belted case. I also find the occasional loose or tight( slightly over and under sized) s&b primer. But none of this stopped me from buying another 10k at $20/k and will buy more soon as possible.

[Petrol & Powder]

I can't speak to S&B for BP but I've shot thousands in smokeless cartridges and they work fine. When trying to create very consistent cartridges I'll use very specific components but that is done to reduce variables and not because one brand is better than the other.

The job of the primer is to ignite the powder charge. Assuming the primer works, just about any primer will accomplish that. NOW, if you're talking about the consistency of the performance from one primer to the next, that's a different test. If my goal is to make functioning handgun ammunition that will be shot at short ranges in several different guns, the brand of primer isn't a big deal as long as it works. If my goal is to make very consistent (read that as repeatable or accurate) rifle cartridges, then I'll use a same brand of primer every time and I may even use the same lot # in order to achieve the least amount of variable factors.

[northern smith]

i shoot 40-65 bp whith those primers. they work just fine, i have also used expensive federal benchrest lrm primers. the s&b ( lr) are absotutely first class. so are federal but at another price. best result are 95 p. at 300 m. mlaic rules.

[Rhou45]

The reality of today's reloading component market is, being a reloading component snob will cost you a lot more money and/or limit your shooting sessions. Get the primers and work up loads for them.

[40-82 hiker]

I was not familiar with S&B primers. Did some research and found this on their website. Might need to do some side by side comparison. What's to lose? Need some $$ first, but I think I'll get some and give them a try.

Dates of Significant Events

5^th August 1825


Louis Sellier, a French merchant, received the privilege to manufacture percussion caps for infantry firearms in its newly founded factory in Prague from Franz I., the Emperor of Austria. Shortly afterwards he invited his countryman, Jean Maria Nicolaus Bellot, to join the company. Under his leadership the manufacture quickly gained momentum and Sellier & Bellot products soon established themselves on both European and overseas markets. As early as 1830 the manufacture of percussion caps was in excess of 60 million and peaked later in 1837 by enormous quantity 156 millions caps.
1829

A subsidiary plant in Prussian Schőnebeck was founded.
1870

Cartridge production started. Together with Flobert‘s rimfire and Lefaucheux‘s pin-primer cartridges, first centrefire cartridges appeared in the production program. During few years, the annual output grew up to 10 millions cartridges.

1884

Another subsidiary plant was established in Riga (Latvia) and this soon covered demands for percussion caps in the whole Russia and Scandinavian countries.
1893

The first trade mark Sellier & Bellot has been listed in Prague.
1895

Hunting cartridge cases, quickly followed by hunting cartridges, were brought into the production program. This program was also extended by copper primers for blasting works and ammunition manufacture in Skoda Pilsen.
1914 - 1918

During the years of World War I the production of commercial ammunition was curbed and total capacity used to manufacture rifle and handgun cartridges for the Army. The Steyr 9 mm cartridge was developed and introduced to serial production during this period. After the independent state of Czechoslovakia was founded in October 1918, the Company became the dominant supplier of handgun ammunition for the Czechoslovak army and police. The production of commercial ammunition for competition shooting and hunting purposes was further extended. The Company expanded into the Asian and South American markets where Sellier & Bellot‘s infantry cartridges met with a great success.
Based on the invention of its managing director Mr. Blechta, the Company became the only manufacturer of silver azide in the world. Owing to this, the production of industrial detonators increased significantly.
1936

The Company´s transfer from Prague to Vlašim led to further growth.
1945

Nationalization of the Company and the decision of the Czechoslovak Government to introduce state monopoly for the manufacture of both military and commercial ammunition supplied a key incentive for further development of Sellier & Bellot. The range of commercial ammunition was extended to forty rifle calibre types, ten pistol and twenty revolver types. Shot shells manufacture ranged from 12 to 410 calibre types and total output was soon increased five times. Approximately 70 % of the output was exported. Original 7.62×45, 7.62×39 and 7.62×54R cartridges were successfully introduced into production to cover the demands of the Czechoslovak Army.
1964

Company started to produce antifriction bearings.
1965

Production of packaging machines, now concentrated in the subsidiary company Sellier & Bellot, stroje Ltd. began.
1972

Manufacture of cartridges according to valid C.I.P. regulations was begun.
1992

Transformation of the state-owned company to a joint-stock company - Sellier & Bellot JSC. The company‘s shareholders are Czech natural and legal persons; a part of the equity is hold by Company´s employees.
Almost 70% of production volume is exported through the daughter company - Sellier & Bellot Trade JSC. The company´s products are exported to more than seventy countries in the world.
1998

Sellier & Bellot JSC was granted ISO 9001 Certificate.
1999


Sellier & Bellot has got the bronze medal in Deutsches Waffen Journal readers´ vote for year 1999 in the category of Ammunition.
2005

Sellier & Bellot JSC celebrating its 180^th anniversary this year is not only the oldest engineering company in the Czech Republic but also one among the oldest companies in the world. It has been manufacturing products bearing its trade mark uninterruptedly since 1825.

[ascast]

I would buy and try. If you get to the point that your losing 1,000yd matches, maybe try something else. Remember back in the '90's the experts said "you must use MAGNUM primers to get black to go off"
Now the same experts are saying "put a wad of old newspaper in before your powder to slow it down, and use pistol primers"

go figure....

and good shooting

[Tackleberry41]

As pointed out being a component snob would really restrict your shooting. I have a choice of buying what the LGS near me has in the case, or paying the hazmat fee, or driving an hour and hoping they have the exact brand I want. Some places might only carry certain brands, so may not be able to get those Fed benchrest primers as all they have are CCI. I picked up a brick of Fed large pistol yesterday, thats what they had in large pistol, Rem in small pistol, and only magnum large rifle. He said he only gets what they send him.

Yes if your a benchrest shooter, yes another brand of primer may screw things up. But most probably wont really notice a difference. Or with some loads does it even matter? Yea my black hawk trying to squeeze out that last little bit maybe the right primer will make the difference. But loading a pile of 9mm plinking FMJ doubt it matters as long as they will fire when struck.

I have bought the S&B primers, they work, so what else do you want. They do tend to be cheaper. Lee makes no mention of all those newer brands on the shelf as to if they are safe in their primer trays. But trays are same size as Win primers, so havent had an issue with using S&B in the lee equipment. One thing I dont like about Fed primers is the huge boxes. One box takes up the space of what 5 bricks of CCI.

[40-82 hiker]

But trays are same size as Win primers, so havent had an issue with using S&B in the lee equipment. One thing I dont like about Fed primers is the huge boxes. One box takes up the space of what 5 bricks of CCI.

The exact reason I do not buy Fed. primers! I store my primers in .50 cal ammo cans and the Fed. primers just take up way too much room. Also, I am happy with the groups I get with what I am shooting. Winchester and CCI work for me just fine. Think I'll try some S&B since they are so much cheaper. Now, I need to find some in a GS, as Hazmat kind of does away with the incentive...

I have never really found much difference in primers of different brands as far as my day to day shooting is concerned, and I am very conscious of trying to realize the potential of a load and gun. Western Powder's ballistician even told me he had never seen any difference with different primers with their AA5744. He believed ANY good primer brand was as good as another, at least for that powder. Some may disagree with that statement, but I can't tell any difference between Winchester and CCI with my .45-70 load in both my TD and my '86 Win. Did I mess around with different primers when shooting NM some decades ago? Heck no! Different shooting, different thinking. It does go both ways, at least in my mind. Not trying to sell it to anyone else, though... Now, I'm lacking funds to such an extent I think S&B primers (Wolf too?) will be worth trying. Rather be out there shooting than in the house barking to be let out.