load data

[loveruger]

I can understand people looking for loads for a certain gun but I think some people are looking for shortcuts. When me and I think quite a few other people on this forum started to reload no internet we experimented and worked our loads. I think the computer has taken away the learning of reloading and for that matter a lot of things gun related. Just my late night rant.

[waksupi]

Plenty of learning here. Cast bullets are for people who really love every step of the process, from dirty wheel weight, to a hole in the target. Some don't have the love, and will never be fully successful with lead projectiles. They want every step given them, and their hand held every step. That is why the serious people are handloaders, not just reloaders.
With the internet, if we find an odd ball gun, we can find a way to shoot it. Before the internet, it could be a long and many times fruitless search before satisfaction was hopefully achieved.

[dragon813gt]

They're just LAZY people. Why they ask for load date on a forum instead of going to the powder manufacturer's website is beyond me

[NC_JEFF]

Doesn't it seem at times that some come with questions that almost any manual will answer. In a hobby/addiction like ours, where not only the final product is lethal, but anything that goes wrong after primers are inserted can cause injury. Anybody even dabbling in such endeavors should acquire for themselves as good a knowledge foundation as can be had. I respect/fear explosive components enough to make sure and acquire as much knowledge as possible before I ever think about making my first reloads. Maybe I read them wrong, I hope I'm just assuming some aren't reloading without first studying this wonderful craft. A lifetime of enjoyment can come to an end early if certain safe procedures aren't diligently followed and every manual I own explains this in detail. Anyway.......I'll help anybody who asks, I want everybody to enjoy reloading.

JD

[Tatume]

My concern is not so much with people asking for data, as it is with giving data to them. If I publish my load data, even if my data are less than maximum loads in a manual, am I assuming any liability?

People will sue over anything. Someone can load a cartridge, fire it in a junk gun, get hurt, and sue. His suit may not have any merit, but the person who is sued will still have to defend himself in court. That costs money, and often it costs a lot of money.

A lawyer told me two things many years ago: 1) He could sue anybody for the color of shirt that person was wearing and probably bankrupt him. 2) He was willing to sue his own grandmother for $5.

Take care, Tom

[Sticky]

A newb to casting chiming in... yes, I have handloaded since waaay before the wonders of the net, but.... I also have always tried to use as much data and info as I could collect before even beginning to load a new cartridge combination. It seems that cast data is a little more scarce from mfr's than it is for jwords, so.... I have found this site and pretty much every thread that I have read to be very informative and full of valuable information.

I don't have a mentor to help me along, nor did I when I started to brew my own ammo, back in the days when you couldn't just go out and buy submoa ammo off the shelf, so the learning process is invaluable to me and all the guidance I can get is much appreciated.

As for specific load data that is posted, well, I understand from loading over the years, that every gun is different, there are too many variables to allow duplication from one to the next and be exact. You need to learn each gun, what it likes and doesn't and the only real way to do that is to experiment, but.. you also need to be experimenting safely, bad things go really bad when a kaboom occurs and so far, in all my years, I have managed to avoid that... and plan on keeping it that way.

I am starting to explore loading casts for a 308AR and this will be pushing the envelope a little, so all of the info that I have been gleaning over the past weeks from reading threads here is going into a large doc that I will later collate into more legible load info. This, along with research from the mfr data will hopefully guide me to a starting point for this journey into previously by my uncharted territory.

No, I won't take 'your load that worked well' and just load and shoot. I will take that little bit of info and file it away with all of the other similar info that I have been able to collect and then, only then, will I think about the different powders, alloys, charge weights, etc. that lead to a final cartridge combination and start to work up some loads and see how things work. There is a lot to be learned and I find others experimentation and sharing it here on the forum an invaluable piece of the puzzle that I am trying to assemble.

So please, there ARE some of us out here that don't yet know, want to learn and really appreciate all the input we can get. This site is an invaluable piece of that, as you guys are pushing the envelope, venturing into areas that would never have been even considered by most if it weren't for internet forums like this, where members share.

Thank you all for what you do share, I for one, really appreciated it!

[Tatume]

A good (but not gun savvy) friend of mine once bought a Savage 10MLII smokeless muzzleloading rifle. I advised him against it, but he bought it anyway. Then he came to me for loading advice. I told him to go to the LGS and buy a pound of a particular powder, and I would teach him how to safely load his rifle. He came back with a pound of Bullseye. I said "This is not what I told you to buy." He responded that the guy at the LGS told him to get Bullseye instead, so he did.

I bought the pound of Bullseye from my friend so he wouldn't take it home, and I loaded his rifle for him from my supply of appropriate powder. I also weighed several charge tubes of powder so he could reload it.

I saw the same thing happen with another friend who wanted to load for his 44 Rem Mag revolver. I gave him a good talking to, he put his loading tools away and bought several manuals (he had never loaded a cartridge in his life), and he studied them. Then we talked again, and he has been loading safely ever since.

I am extremely cautious about providing loading data. Even well-intentioned, honest folk can get into trouble through ignorance. You tell them one thing, they add erroneous information gleaned from a not-to-be-trusted source, and they get hurt.

Oh, and NEVER believe anything the clerk at the LGS tells you, unless you know the person personally.

[dragon813gt]

My concern is not so much with people asking for data, as it is with giving data to them.

Your concern is the same as mine. Which is why I rarely post load data. On the rare occasion I do it's a published load that is usually in the midrange. There really is no need to ask for load data w/ canister powder. Use published data and work up accordingly. If there isn't anything published then work up a load like you would any other time.

[Animal]

A lot of it goes back to how you were raised. By the time I learned how to read on a 3rd grade level, I learned that I wouldn't get an answer from my family members if I didn't attempt to look for my own answers in a Dictionary or Encyclopedia first. I push my youngens the same way.

[Harter66]

By using a suggestion for a particular gun or bullet I cannot even begin to count the unfired development loads.

I have had several guns that just wouldn't work with published data,a particular 1-9.5 twisted 06' comes to mind followed by a model 66 clone that turned out to have a 355 groove and 356 throat ideal for cast ,but not so much for the magnum JHP I was trying to feed it and the cases jammed tight with start loads. How about huge conflicts in data or my personal favorite the wildcat that is the correct length and capacity but the shoulder is in the wrong place (by a lot) . The Lee data with the 280 AI dies matches Lyman 280 Remington data but their 264 WM data starts just below Hornady, Lyman,Speer and Serria max and exceeds them by a huge margin.

I'm all for working up (or even down in several cases) a load for my particular needs but if 10 others have been there with 5 guns 2-10 digits before or after me then odds are good that working from their favorite load (or a believed/expessed/implied/extrapolated pressure/velocity) might save a guy 3 powders ,2 primers and 3 cases totaling possibly into 100 of rounds. Sometimes you have to just drive out through the bushes and make the double wide goat trail but it is usually a faster trip where someone else has already found the hidden wash-outs and suddenly blown primers in start loads.

[mdi]

Much of our society today is what I call the "Instant Generation". Instead of research, they can get an "instant" answer on a forum. They don't have to spend precious seconds either going to google or looking in a book. They have spent years with a cell phone attached to their heads, only reading done is a computer screen, and info. is delivered to them in milliseconds. Can't really blame them though, it's the state of the civilized world.

I too started reloading pre-web and I often recommend a new reloader get published manuals for all their reloading info. (one exception would be powder manufacturer's information on line, but that should be checked with a printed manual). I tell every new reloader that will listen that I don't pay much attention to an forum expert, range rat, gun counter clerk, pet loads website, or gun shop guru for any load data, period. Also I don't offer up any load data either, it would be just holding the new guy's hand, leading him through the process. Mebbe I'm just an old phart that prefers the printed word over a digital display/computer screen (not really, generally speaking), but this has worked quite well for me for over 30 years (but I do use a modern turret press and smokeless powder!)...

[country gent]

One issue I have with giving load data out is, I dont know the firearm and its chamber dimensions, condition and history. All of these have a direct affect on pressure levels and saftey. A load that may be safe in my firearm may not be in yours due to this. I have a short throated M1A ( 155s at mag length touched rifling when chambered) and most factory loads federal gold medal, M852, and others would flatten primers due to the short throat and tighter chamber dimensions. Not knowing a rifle and blidly giving load info out can cause issues.

[borg]

Give a man a fish, he'll eat for the day, teach him to fish,,

[Jevyod]

I agree with what is being said. I usually pound the manuals first. However, being rather new to reloading, I have not had the time or funds to amass a large amount of powder. I think sometimes questions are asked in order to weed out particular powders that the manuals might list, but nobody has had much success with. Now I would say that there is absolutely no shortcut to experimenting and seeing what works for you. But if I can get a head start on my load development by asking a few questions, I have no qualms in doing so!
I have not been blessed by having a mentor, so all you guys are my mentor. All the info is GREATLY appreciated!!!!

[NC_JEFF]

I've got '06 loads that move at 900 fps and some that travel 3300+ fps, but I made a LOT of '06 loads that were 2700-2800 fps and came right out of my favorite manual with good old H4350. Use these tested loads if your new, develop your technique and become a really consistant and safe reloader before you venture off the well worn path. I, like some others here, hesitate to post my self-developed load for some of my hotter loads because I've already started with a much reduced load and worked it up to where it is safe in my rifle. I also have a dummy round made up for every round I shoot, no one else will have that to keep them from seating a round deeper than I do with my recipe. We'll all help anyone on this site but anybody answering questions like to know that you (the Questioneer) are up to the task with this information. I do have 20+ years at this and I have more questions than answers and I still have a very healthy respect for what I'm doing at the loading bench. OK.....next question, sorry I rambled on so long.
JD

[dh2]

yes I see many asking things like how much powder X for gun 123 like they have not opened a reloading manual , over the years I have got in to working with some wild cats that I have found nothing in a manual for and I have a book shelf full of them, some times I get lucky and some one will give me a source for the data I am after. I am leery of putting data from unknown in my gun . I prefer a paper book in from of me if I can get it

[jonp]

Money. With powder hard to get and getting more expensive I see no need to reinvent the wheel. If something someone else has tried dosnt work there is little sense wasting time, effort and powder doing it again.

I am having trouble with a WC at present. I posted a thread and got many answers. Turns out that the printed load data is incorrect. I may have been able to figure this out myself eventually but I saved much time and powder drawing on the experience here. Thats what this forum is all about

[Indiana shooter]

I am new to casting myself and I'll give my input on this subject.

Before I decided to begin casting I read everything that I could and talked to as many people as I could. The end result was that I found many contradictions based on where or who the information was coming from.

I then tried it myself and my results where demoralizing to say the least. I mean come on how hard is it to melt lead and pour it into a mold. I then joined another forum and began asking questions on where I went wrong. The members of the forum where very helpful and in turn pointed me to here.

I feel that I am among experts here and if I can't figure something out after many attempts, or I'm looking to buy something I'll ask. I don't ask in hopes of finding an easy solution but to draw from the knowledge of wiser men/women that have been there and done that. Then I'll draw my own conclusion and see if it helps.

This is as true with casting as well as load data. Nothing personal to anyone but I take everything with a grain of salt until I prove it myself.

[BrianL]

Ask yourselves how many people were saved from hurting themselves and others by realizing that they were unable, or unwilling to read reams of archives trying to find the one nugget of information that pertained to a question that they wanted to ask. There are two sides of most stories and for every one of us that is bothered by noobs asking the same old questions, there is another who takes pride in offering guidance. I DO NOT mean particularly in the area of data as that is not the direction that this thread has been going. It has been about the ease of access and instant gratification.

Many of us look to the forums as a social interaction. Few of us would be hesitant to suggest someone to talk to a mentor more experienced when you need help. This is one of the places where they should be free to ask the same old questions.

If that wasn't the case in the whole sport, Why do we keep seeing gun writers being lazy and putting out articles like "30-30....enough gun?"
It isn't that the information can't be found. It is more along the lines of, "If I have a question about shooting cast boolits, where should I go to find information?"

[BrianL]

I went to Castpics and found a load for the 32 Special of 40 grains of IMR4895 for the RCBS 32-170. Every other manual states 32 grains as a max. If I used only one source of info, is this load safe? Why is it so far higher than the rest? Point is, reading published data isn't always definitive.