1903A3/Garand mold discussion

[DeadWoodDan]

Wanting to purchase a mold that will cover my needs, 100yds, shooting a SC1903A3 AND M1Garand. Have narrowed it down to the most popular ones in my search:
311299
311284
311365
312290
I understand that for best accuracy I need to do a cast of each chamber, I haven't figured out best method but do plan on having this information before continuing.

With the above molds I would like to discuss why one is better than the other, what attributes that mold may provide for one or both rifles. If anything else would like to here how rifleX performed better with moldY over moldZ and why.

Thanks for any and all comments

[Outpost75]

I use the NOE version of #314299 in my Garand, 03A3, Winchester 54 and Mauser '06 sporters. Also works well in my several 7.62x54Rs. In worn barrels you want the forepart large enough to engrave.

[pworley1]

I like the 311284.

[Scharfschuetze]

I often opt for either the Lyman 311332 or the 311334 (hard to tell 'em apart). For a worn bore, I like the larger 314299 design.

[WineMan]

Harder to make them larger, easier to size them down. Get the 314299, size as needed.

Dave

[madsenshooter]

Another mold for your consideration: http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index....pic,627.0.html I'll let you know how it works in my Garand, once it gets warmer. My Krag sure liked it! There would probably be room in the throat of my Garand for the nose of the .314 version, but with LC brass .311 seems to be as large as I can go with the bands.

[newrib]

I like the 311299 for my 1903A3, that rifle has a barrel which looked new when I picked it out at the cmp north store. It shoots better with this bullet than with M2 ball. My M1s don't shoot that well with this bullet as the barrels are worn, however the 314299 with its bigger nose is the bullet for the H&R M1 when first sized, gced and lubed at .314 then sized to .310. That rifle will shoot 3.5 inch 10 shot groups at 100 yards all day with that set up. That bullet will not will not fit the throat of the 03A3, but when sized to .314 it will shoot well in some .303british and 7.62X54R. That is what works for me, Good Luck !

[marvelshooter]

I shoot a NOE 311365 in mine because I like the way it looks and it shoots pretty good too.

[avogunner]

I primarily use a Lyman 311299 for my 1903 (not an A3) and my Garand. My 03 has a RA 44 barrel and I can get easily 2 MOA with it but also I get good results with a Lee 170 FN. My Garand only gets the Lyman and I get the same results as with my 03.....really a nice boolit for those two rifles. FYSA, I size to .310 and use Rooster Red lube. When my stash of that runs out, I've got some Bens Red and Lars Carnuba to try but don't expect much different results. We'll see though.
Semper Fi.

[DeadWoodDan]

Another mold for your consideration: http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index....pic,627.0.html I'll let you know how it works in my Garand, once it gets warmer. My Krag sure liked it! There would probably be room in the throat of my Garand for the nose of the .314 version, but with LC brass .311 seems to be as large as I can go with the bands.

Looks like I have a couple more too look at. madsenshooter, do you know if there is a thread discussing this mold/booit? Very interesting to say the least.

[Char-Gar]

Folks have been shooting cast bullets in various 30-06 rifles for a century now. It is not difficult to get accuracy equal to or better than USGI ball ammo with a number of different mold designs. The 1-10 twist barrels places a limit on the upper end of velocity with good accuracy. Once you have adjusted your thinking to that reality, you are free to roam in the world of cast bullets.

As always fit of the bullet to the throat and rifling lands is the key factor. If those numbers are good, just about any decent bullet from 150 to 210 grains will make you happy. I have had good luck with the following bullets;

Lyman 311284
Lyman 311299
Lyman 311334
Lyman 311291
SAECO RG4
RCBS 165 Sil
Lyman 311466
Lyman 311467
311407 Mod (NOE)

If I could have only one, it would be 311299. A perusal of the CAB military rifle match data, while show that bullet consistently the most common bullet used by the top shooters and winners.

That said any of the above bullets, properly fitted to the throat and lands, will deliver 1.5 - 2.0 MOA accuracy in my 1903A3 rifles, my US 1917 rifles and my 1954 Winchester 70. Group sizes will vary from day to day depending on how much coffee I had, how much I drank the night before, the wind, the light and my general state of karma.

There are probably other bullets that will do as well, but the above list are the ones I have worked with enough to feel comfortable with how they perform in the 30-06 rifle. Please note, the loads I am talking about run from 1.5 to a little over 1.8K fps.

I have a very good Garand rifle, but I don't shoot cast bullets in it. The jacketed bullet loads I have put through it show 3.0 to 3.5 MOA accuracy, which as I understand is about par for an unmodified rack grade Garand. I keep the Garand and 500 rounds of USGIM2 and USGIM2AP (in clips) ready for anti-pendejo duty. I have plenty of other rifles with which to entertain myself at the range.

[DeadWoodDan]

As always fit of the bullet to the throat and rifling lands is the key factor. If those numbers are good, just about any decent bullet from 150 to 210 grains will make you happy. I have had good luck with the following bullets;

Lyman 311284
Lyman 311299
Lyman 311334
Lyman 311291
SAECO RG4
RCBS 165 Sil
Lyman 311466
Lyman 311467
311407 Mod (NOE)

If I could have only one, it would be 311299. A perusal of the CAB military rifle match data, while show that bullet consistently the most common bullet used by the top shooters and winners.

That said any of the above bullets, properly fitted to the throat and lands, will deliver 1.5 - 2.0 MOA accuracy in my 1903A3 rifles, my US 1917 rifles and my 1954 Winchester 70. Group sizes will vary from day to day depending on how much coffee I had, how much I drank the night before, the wind, the light and my general state of karma. .

Char,

This is my scenario exactly. Looking for improved accuracy and less quantity shooting. Checking the throat and lands is new ground for me and looking forward to the data. I believe I have determined what mold to use; thanks for your comments.
Kevin

[Char-Gar]

Char,

This is my scenario exactly. Looking for improved accuracy and less quantity shooting. Checking the throat and lands is new ground for me and looking forward to the data. I believe I have determined what mold to use; thanks for your comments.
Kevin

I have never found it necessary to do a cast of a rifle's chamber or a pound slug of the throat.

For commercial hunting rifles a sizing diameter of .310 will do the trick 99% of the time. There may be a fiew that require .309, but none of mine do.

For a military rifle in good shape, .310 will get er done. If not .311 will. A rifle with a very worn throat might like .312.

As for fit to lands, make up a dummy round with your bullet of choice and chamber it. The nose should lightly engrave on the lands. If you have to force it or the bullet sticks in the barrel when you extract it, that is too big. With a semi-auto rifle, you always need to be mindful that a bullet that it too tight in the barrel might cause the bullet to be set back into the case when the round is chambered.

In your case, just size a bullet .310 or .311 and make up a dummy round. If the nose is too large, Buckshot will make you a nose sizing die to any size you want. If the nose is a smidge to small, shoot the load anyway and see what the target looks like. Depending on the style of the bullet, you might be happy with the results.

[BruceB]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!!!!!!!

Chargar's post above is pure, distilled wisdom.

In 48-plus years of handloading, ALL that time using cast bullets in rifles and handguns, I too have never found it necessary to do pound casts or chamber casts. I have cast an occasional chamber out of curiosity, but not as a regular procedure in my routines.

I agree completely with his comments on bullet diameters vis-a-vis the various rifles. There is no need to go through a lot of complicated maneuvers to get a rifle to shoot well with cast bullets. Other threads running on this website right now contain UNBELIEVABLE complications and various scientific postulations in the most minute detail imaginable.

Not for me, brothers. My rifles shoot just fine for my purposes, just as they have for decades. The KISS principle still serves admirably, and I is a happy camper just as I is.

Incidentally, ALL my reasonably-modern .30 rifles shoot very well with .311" diameter.... I don't even bother testing with other sizes now. .303s naturally get fatter ones.... a new sizing die for .316" is in the works for all of them, with NOE 316299 bullets. I don't remember the last time I slugged a barrel.

Chargar and I.... heretics of the very worst sort! BUT.... I spend a lot more time LOADING than I do worrying about minor details.

[Char-Gar]

Bruce, it seems to be part of human nature to;

1. Want to reinvent the wheel.

2. Want to display everything we know about everything to everybody, all the time. i.e. What's the use in knowing something of you don't let folks know you know it.

3. Want to make things far more complex than necessary to confuse people.

So, heretics of the cast bullet world unite in a fight against 1,2, and 3 above!

[DeadWoodDan]

Gentleman I am on board and glad you have posted. After going through some revolver issues, I tend to over think and expect too much. So I will do what has worked for me in the past, load'm and shoot'm! I have my first ever 03A3 on its way ( late graduation present & midlife do it or forget it ) and have put less than 100rnds down range with my Garand. Spent the last 4yrs accumulating components, rifles and many molds and this summer am going to shoot them all.

[L Ross]

I cannot argue with Bruce B or Char-Gar's good advice, those are great moulds. Permit me to throw one more in. I was surprised and delighted when I tried the little Lee SKS bullet, I think they call it the 312-155-SP maybe? I was looking at it one day and thought how similar it would be to the 152 gr. ball GI ammo projectile. I tried it cast out of acww and a smidge of tin, sized .311", over 16.0 gr of IMR-4227 and it works splendidly in all of my 03's and 03A3's. I don't have a Garand. This little mould is inexpensive, saves alloy and handles all of my plinking needs out to 200 yards.

Duke

[DeadWoodDan]

I just picked this up in the S&S earlier this week,LEE C312 155 2R 6 cavity mould and have the LEE C309-200 to play with until NOE gets some 311299 back in stock.

[Silverbulletsmith]

NOE has the 311299 now. Just ordered one.

[zomby woof]

The NOE 312299 works best in my 1903A3
The NOE 312284 works best in my M1 Garand