SAECO Lubrisizer - Tips and Lessons Learned

[Iron Mike Golf]

A few times a year, there's posts asking about this lubrisizer. I don't know how many folks buy them new and how many are like me and get one used as their first one. I thought I'd share what I've learned the past few years using this tool. This is the only lubrisizer (apart from the Lee dies you use on your press) I've ever used.

I am going to cover some general stuff and then get into some specifics, like how to make your own seals, things you can do to cut down on leaks, troubleshooting, etc.

General:

First thing is the position of the lever. Unlike other sizers, this one has the ram lever "sideways". That means you need more width at the bench to mount and operate the tool. There's an optional bench clamp available and I use that instead of bolting it to the bench. The other thing with the sideways lever is you can't "lean into it" very well when raising the arm. For me, the only time this is an issue is if I try to operate the tool with no heat and a stiff lube like Carnauba Red. Overall, the tool is very solid and seems just about indestructible.

The factory made dies only go up to 45-70 cal or so. No 50 cal dies. You can get some custom made. There are fewer folks that do this, though, as compared to Lyman/RCBS. The top punches are threaded and the profiles available are for SAECO boolit profiles. I have used Lyman/RCBS style top punches just fine, though, by "gluing" them in place with a bit of cold lube. I recommend getting some flat top punches (NOE makes them. SAECO ones are hard to find) and these work well on FP and HP boolits. Another challenge is the limited availability of die sizes. Some calibers have quite a few variations (9mm/38 cal - .355, .356, .357, .358, .359, .360 for example) and others have just one (40 cal - .401 only). I have honed by hand a .431 to .433 and a .401 to .403. It akes some work but is doable.

[Iron Mike Golf]

Heaters

This tool was designed when lubes were a lot light, basically the consistency of grease. So it does not work well with stiffer lubes unless they are heated. That includes some lubes that are advertised to not need a heater. For example, I can run BAC if the room temp is above 70 degrees, but just barely.

The tool is not designed to use a heater and adding heat can be a challenge. The school solution for adding a heater is to put one between the bench and the tool base. I use the Lyman universal heater (it's pre-drilled for bolting it and the SAECO to the bench, if desired)and it works fine, but does take some time to pre-heat. 15 min in the summer and 40 min in the winter (the room where I reload is 65 degrees or so in the winter). I have used a metal plate and travel iron and even an incandescent desk lamp as heat sources. Those work fine, too. Sometimes, if I am in a hurry in the winter, I'll help the Lyman heater with a hairdryer.

The challenge is getting heat to the part of the casting surrounding the die. There's not much contact surface witht he heater plate and a goodly distance heat has to travel in the casting to get to the front of the tool. So, what can often happen is the lube flows well in the back of the die and poorly in front. Things that help here are the hairdryer, a bit warmer air in the room, and more time to pre-heat.

[Iron Mike Golf]

Pressuring the Lube and Leaks:

The thing to keep in mind is this machine is made to run axle grease type of fluid. If your lube is stiffer, you make it pump the thicker lube, but you are forcing it and you can expect consequences. What you want is easy flowing lube and less pressure in the reservoir.

What consequences?

First there's leaks. I'm talking from around the die, both top and bottom. The die is secured in the casting by a round knurled nut. It's supposed to be finger tight. There's no flats on either the die nor the nut for a wrench to grip. I use a fiber washer (hardware store) above and below and a pair of pliers on the nut only. I tighten until the die turns along with the nut. This along with proper heating and appropriate pressure stopped my leaks.

The second is high wear on the reservoir piston seal. Originally, that seat was a stack of leather washers. Now, a neoprene cap covers the end of the piston. The neoprene is not very durable. And it cost $6-7, last I checked a few years ago. Too much pressure will force some lube past the seal and above the piston. So, you will have to refill the reservoir sooner. But the bad part comes when you back the piston up the grease tube. The lube that got past the seal is likely (really, really likely) to tear the seal up. And lube up in the tube is likely to be cooled way down and a lot stiffer, making tearing more likely.

The good news is you can get supplies at the hardware store to make a new seal, with the expendable parts being on the order of $0.70 or so. I'll dig up some pics of that and post them later.

The other, and most frustrating, leak is in the die, under a boolit. You raise the lever and the boolit pops out on a column of lube. If you have a lot of pressure, lube almost shoots out of the die. What I have found to be the culprit here is the boolit gets stuck in the top punch. There's slack between the moving parts, so you have space to insert and remove a boolit. If the boolit sticks in the top punch, lifting the lever raises the boolit before the ejector pin starts moving. So the lube ports get uncovered and the space between the boolit and ejector pin fills with lube.

The solution here is a properly fitting top punch. So, either one from the mold maker, customizing a different top punch, or, if possible, a flat punch. There's a number of thread here on using hot melt glue or epoxy to reshape the top punch cavity to match a boolit profile. Again, I often use an RCBS/Lyman style with great success.

[Iron Mike Golf]

Loading the Reservoir

If you are setting up a pre-owned sizer the first time, be sure to throughly clean the reservoir and the hollow part of the casting surrounding the die. Do the same if when refilling the reservoir, you note that the seal has torn. I have dealt with chunks of seal getting in the casting and partially blocking the lube flow. Even sealing lube holes in the die.

Use solid lube sticks, if you can. I have rammed softer lubes down the tube with a piece of dowel. I think it's best to melt the lube and pour it it. This minimizes air pockets. I can't say air pockets have given me much trouble, even if just dropping a stick in the tube and cranking the piston down. I don't try to fill the tube to max capacity. You can overfill it and trying to push the piston down while screwing on the tube cap can be a workout. I shoot for 3/4 full. Wear a glove when dealing with the screw cap. The knurling is aggressive!

[Iron Mike Golf]

Adjusting the Guide Rods

So, the whole ram mechanism is guided by two steel rods. Those have nuts top and bottom. The owner's manual say for you to send the tool in to Redding to have that adjusted properly. No thanks!

I have taken mine apart twice. Once for initial cleaning, and the second time because when I assembled it the first time, I left off the gas check seating arm. I just left it off. A couple years later, I needed to seat checks, sooooo....

On the guide rods: the nuts need to be adjusted so the rods are parallel. I found that there was less than 1/4 turn of the nuts before things went south and the mechanism started binding up. Now, there is a ball detent that holds the lifting arm in place at the top of the stroke. That keeps things out of the way so you can insert/remove your boolit and not need to use on hand to hold the arm up. I figure of the lever will drop form there to bottom of stroke by its own weight, the guide rods are aligned. To help get there faster, only remove the nuts on the bottom of the rods.

[wallenba]

Yep... all the above. I bought mine because Saeco offered some die sizes not available in most of the others. With a few exceptions it gets little use now. Sad thing is, I think, with a few changes it can be made into a much better tool. Those changes would have to start at the manufacturing end.

[Iron Mike Golf]

Operation Tips

1. How do I know if the sizer is warm enough? You should be able to push the die's ejector pin up with pressure from the tip of your pinky figer and it is a moderate pressure at that.
2. How tight do I screw down the reservoir piston? Extended finger against the middle of the piston handle. Like you are mixing a drink with your finger. I screw it down until I feel some resistance. After that, I am running a boolit in there and checking for lube. I give it 1/4 second at bottom of stroke for lube to flow. I advance the piston screw only 1/4 turn at a time.
3. What about setting the correct depth of stroke? Here's what I do when setting up. I remove the top punch and take 2 boolits and an unmounted die. I stack the boolits up and lay them alongside the die with the lower boolit's lube groove lined up with lube holes in the die. I make note of where the upper boolit lines up with the top surface of the die. Without a top punch installed, I get the stack of boolits in the die and adjust the depth to line the top boolit up. Then I will raise things up 1/4 turn of the adjusting screw underneath. I pressurize the reservoir and install the top punch. Now, I gradually lower the adjusting screw and check. With very little pressure, you get lube spots instead of filling the groove and you can easily center the groove on the lube port of the die.
4. End of run: I try to store the sizer with no pressure in the reservoir. I'd rather not back the piston out until I need to refill it. So as I get close to the end of the session, I stop advancing the piston. How soon? Depends on boolit: caliber, groove width, number of grooves. I might be able to load 15 or 20 boolits (380 or 9mm) between piston advances. I try to end the session with the last piston advance covering twice the normal number of boolits. That usually means sitting at bottom of stroke longer and the last half dozen or so boolits, 2 strokes with a 90 or 180 degree rotation in between.
5. Removing the piston: Figure out where in the grease tube the piston is. Is the tube warm to the touch above and alongside the piston? And all the way to the top? If not, I use a hair dryer. Back it out most the the way. You are going to have to pull it out at least the length of the piston assembly (3 inches or so). If you have cold, thick lube, it's not easy at all. And this is the point your seal is most likely to tear. Have a spare ready.

[Iron Mike Golf]

Here's what I use for the piston seal:


Neoprene washer on the end of the piston:


A nylon washer for strength. Note the hole is too big, so I pack lube in there to help center it:


And a stainless washer to hold the nylon one:

[DR Owl Creek]

Wow! That was an outstanding report! Thanks for all your effort!

Dave

[PbHurler]

Great writeup Jeff, you covered everything very well.

I learned a few new things as a longtime user of a Saeco. (Guide Rod info)

Thanks!

[101VooDoo]

Thanks Jeff,

Timely post as I received my Saeco on Wednesday. Bought it so I could have a dedicated lubrisizer loaded with SPG for BPCR loads. Set up was straight forward, and once I figured out the proper pressure, it works great. Very nice machine.

Do you know of anyone currently making an adapter so you can use Lyman/Saeco top punches?

Jim

[tonyjones]

Check with theperfessor, a member here, for an adaptor. He makes some other useful items as well.

TJ

[101VooDoo]

Thanks TJ, I shot him an email.

[Iron Mike Golf]

Thanks folks!

I've considered getting a Lyman/RCBS to SAECO top punch adapter. Currently (today, anyways), I am of the opinion that a top punch that is un-anchored and has a little free-float might be a good thing. The top punch centers on the boolit and if the nose somehow sticks in the top punch, the punch won't pull the boolit up, which results in a squirt of lube.

I don't know how much space an adapter takes up, but with some boolits, there's not much space between the punch and the nose. Granted, SAECO punches tend to be quite long, compared to RCBS/Lyman. Having said that, short boolits (93 gr HP for 380 comes to mind) can be a challenge is you use a Lyman/RCBS top punch. I end up using that punch and another boolit, as the top punch is not long enough by itself.

[Doc Highwall]

Al at NOE makes top punches for his moulds with both Lyman/RCBS and SAECO options maybe you could get some of them that are close to what you have and use JB Weld or something to make them fit your bullets.

[tonyjones]

I have a selection (5) of NOE SAECO style flat top punches. If the bullet has a meplat this is my preferred option. The adaptor is sometimes handy to have. TJ

[cajun shooter]

The NOE top punches are the way to go if your bullet has some sort of a flat meplat. They have three sizes that will cover most all bullets. The purchase price is about $6 each and a bargain. The only thing that I saw that may need to be addressed in Mike's posting was his not wanting to release the pressure when finished and the removing of the pressure assembly.
I just back off my pressure adjustment about 5 turns and that keeps the lube from seeping. My machine can set for days and not show any signs of leakage.
I also have my Saeco mounted on a 1/2 thick aluminum plate that is 9 inches long and 5 inches wide. It is all held to the bench with the Saeco bench mounting tool, no bolts or screws through bench top. This allows one to use different areas of his loading table when other machines are in use. I use c-clamps on all my mountings.
I have found no problems with adding a travel iron to the aluminum plate when the sizer needs a little warmth to flow the lube when getting started.
I also have no or problems with my Saeco when it comes time to either add or change lubes. Some or most users do this step completely wrong and cause themselves and the machine problems. It seems that Mike may be doing this wrong from the content of his posting about having to pull the pressure disc through all that stiff lube. The first thing to do is back out the adjustment rod until the pressure disc is all the way back to the top of center post. This would be the position that the pressure disc starts out at, which is at the top. You then don't have to pull the pressure disc up through any lube or the air seal that is present. The pressure assembly then removes very fast and easy and puts no damage to the parts involved.
I have been casting since 1970 and have owned all of the brands available for lube sizing. I ran as many as three Stars at one time, with all three having air pressure feeds. Next to the Stars, I feel the Saeco is the finest lube/sizer available for one to use. Take Care David

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I have used two Saeco's for decades now'one is a black crinkle original and the second is a green crinkle newer version. both have performed well and never given me any problem. This thread really should be a sticky as it contains a lot of valuable information on using this lubrisizer and dealing with any issues that may arise. LLS