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Thread: 30-40 and Leverevolution?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    30-40 and Leverevolution?

    “[With Leverevolution in the 30-30] we see a big performance gain of 240 fps over the fastest factory 150 gr ammunition and a 100 fps gain over the best reload with normal powder. All with less psi and better internal uniformity.” - Larry Gibson

    So, my thesis is that Leverevolution may offer 100 - 200 fps velocity improvements over existing handloads while remaining within the 40,000 psi SAAMI pressure set for the Krag Joergensen rifle. I would appreciate a constructive review of my thinking and any relevant personal experience. Given that I do not have a pressure test barrel, the goal is simply to demonstrate a conservative improvement within pressure parameters (case head expansion method) and use that to encourage Hodgdon to do the testing for LVR with the 30-40.

    We have data from Hodgdon for LVR in the 308 ME, with case capacity @ 6 grs less, +/- 2 grs depending on brass, than the 30-40 that puts the starting charge of 39 grs LVR/170 gr FP for 2,392 fps 37,400 psi. By comparison, in the 30-40, with a starting charge of 35 grs H4895 and 180 gr SP, MV is given as 2,171. No pressure rating for this charge is given in the Hodgdon data but we may assume it is somewhere well below the SAAMI 40,000 psi MAP, probably in the 33,500 - 35,000 psi range. Yes, this is an apples to Volkswagons comparison, but we have to start somewhere.

    We see that with the 170 gr FP the starting charge for the 308 ME with H4895 is 35 grs, delivering 41,000 psi and 2,289 fps MV, or just over 100 fps less than the starting charge of LVR, in line with Larry Gibson's excelllent summary of Leverevolution's performance. But we must also notice that the same starting charge of H4895 in the 308 ME with a bullet 10 grs lighter delivers 1,000 psi over the SAAMI MAP for the 30-40 Krag. Therefore, that substantial case capacity difference also delivers a substantial pressure differential. Now we are comparing apples to another, albeit unknown, fruit. This is almost like progress.

    So far, the same starting charge of the same powder in the 308ME with a 10 gr lighter bullet delivers something like 6,000 - 8,000 more psi than in the 30-40. This establishes, to my thinking a baseline safety parameter.

    The next safety parameter is to not test in a 120 year old rifle with its notoriously weak single locking lug. Instead, I intend to conduct this experiment with a Ruger No.3, sharing the same falling block action in which the 416 Ruger and 375 H&H at 62,000 psi are chambered. While one ought not assume one's Ruger No 3 with an undoubtedly lighter barrel is rated to 62,000 psi, I am comfortable in assuming it is rated to a much higher pressure than an 1896 Krag Jorgensen rifle.

    The third safety parameter is to test only to just under the 308 ME max charge of 41.4 grs LVR.

    The control group will be 10 cartridges of H4895 loaded with 38.0 grs under the 180 gr Speer Hot Cor SP. This should deliver somewhere near Hodgdon's claimed 2,265 fps MV and case head expansion should be the max compatible with the Krag's 40,000 psi MAP.

    The base group will be 10 cartridges loaded with the 308ME start load of 39 grs LVR under the same 180 gr Speer Hot Cor SP. Will inspect primers for pressure signs (or backing out,though unlikely) and measure case head expansion as a pressure indicator.

    The third group will be 10 cartridges loaded with just under the max 308ME charge at 41 grs LVR under the same Speer Hot Cor 180 sp. Primers will be inspected and case head expansion recorded.

    My expectations are that there will be no pressure signs in the Base group (39 grs LVR) and that it will be somewhat insipid as a load, while the 41 grs LVR will yield somewhere upwards of 100 fps over the control group with no case head expansion beyond that in the control group.

    This is, admittedly, a pretty tame experiment but hopefully it demonstrates enough potential to get the pros at Hodgdon to have a go at Leverevolution in the 30-40. I predict that they will find a more than 100 fps gain vs other powders within the 40,000 psi MAP for the Krag and that we will have a load that yields a Maximum Point Blank Range of 225 - 240 yards with a 180 gr bullet from the Krag-Joergensen rifle, reestablishing its suitabillity for mule deer and elk.

    So, a conservative experiment studying an arcane cartridge with a very modest goal. Nothing to get excited about, I agree. But if you have anythiing constructive to add, I would appreciate it. Thanks very much.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master reed1911's Avatar
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    The nice thing about using the single shot action is that you can mount a pressure transducer very easily. If you have that option I strongly suggest you take it, or purchase one of the Ohler set-ups

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Ok, testing has been done. There is insufficient rigour and volume to establish anything concrete, but there is enough to indicate strong potential.

    All testing completed with Ruger No. 3 22" barrel R-P Brass and Winchester Large Rifle Primers

    Factory Remington 180 Core-Lokt (control)

    20 rounds. Avg Velocity = 2296 fps AVG Case Head Expansion = 0.005" (SD 38 fps)

    Leverevolution. 180 grs Speer HCSP

    19 x 39 grs LVR: Avg Velocity = 2276 fps Avg Case Head Expansion = 0.0038" (SD 42 fps)

    20 x 41grs: Avg Velocity = 2356 fps Avg Case Head Expansion =0.0035" (SD 31 fps)
    (Max Load for 308 ME with LVR is 41.4grs. 308 ME holds 6 grs less H20 than Remington 30-40)

    20x 43 grs LVR: Avg Velocity = 2368 fps Avg Case Head Expansion = 0.0036" *(High SD 68 fps. Something odd?)

    18x 44.1 grs LVR: Avg Velocity = 2421 fps Avg Case Head Expansion = .0045 (SD 29 fps)



    The highest velocity published load for 180 grs bullet by Hodgdon is 2445 fps with IMR 4350 (46 grs C) through 24" test barrel at 38,700 CUP.

    So, my conclusion is that Leverevolution holds potential for delivering 100 + fps more than highest current published loads in Krag Jorgenson rifles at safe pressures and that Hornady should test LVR for the Krag and see whether my amateur results and methods pan out or not. I will write to Hornady accordingly and we shall see.

  4. #4
    Boolit Mold
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    Very inspirational. I have been analyzing the potential of the .225 Winchester, with just two tenths of a CC more case capacity than a .30-30 and the highest velocity listed is for BL-C(2). I was just going to measure case lengthening for an idea of pressure. I don't think it will hold more than 36 grains of Leverevolution so I would not get in much trouble. If I could get either the same velocity as the listed maximum load without case lengthening or 200 fps velocity increase without exceeding the designed CUP it would be a success. The 200 fps velocity increase would put it in Swift territory which would be a great achievement.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
    nekshot's Avatar
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    In my limited ability I have found that LVR only really shines when pushing real heavy boolits. I bet 200 grainers would start to talk in that gun!
    Look twice, shoot once.

  6. #6
    Boolit Mold
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    Has anyone taken a look at this recently? Leverevolution powder was added to quickload from what I heard. Are there any theoretical loads?

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check